I wanna get high so bad I could cry!

[kil092286]

Ok I have been on suboxone for 4 months now and I have only slipped (or tryed to) once. (30mgs of methadone after being clean for 2 months) Didn't get high at all. Now I know I have been clean for this long but God Damn I just wanna get HIGH! I know the answers I'm gonna get too so I dunno if this is gonna be moved to rants or what but what do you guys and girls who are on suboxone do when you get that urge? The christmas season is rough without my GOOD opiates.

[born2lose]

dude, i deff understand...i'm on sub 4 months and i get high ...every 10 days I take abotu 3 days to "vacation"...anyways, i have to wait like 2 days AT LEAST to even feel anything when i do my DOC (oxy/fent)....usually after 72+ hours (never waited that long) i can feel the opes at almost 100%
anyways when i am craving while on subs, i snort about 2-4mg's of bupe, smoke some weed (take any benzos if you got) bc you cant be entertaining the thought bc you literally will not be able to get high
thats my experience anyways...

[kevin]

Knock yourself on the head with a frying pan. Works for me.

[roxi*stardust]

I cry




But seriously I have tried taking more Bupe, like 2-4 mgs. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. I can't really give you any godd advice besides try to do something that will take your mind off of it.

[robojunkie]

It's kinda funny (not humorous funny, weird/cynical funny) that when I first came on here about a year and a half ago, I didn't know anyone IRL that was on bupe and most of what I heard here then was pretty positive, especially compared to done. (Never been on bupe, been on done twice) Now the general sense I get that amount of time later is that they aren't anywhere near as good (as in useful, whatever that means to the person taking them) as they were once thought and hyped to be. I guess that's typical of new things and really not surprising considering the cardinal sin against etorphine that bupe is. (If you don't get that "joke" look up the two structures, bupe is an "N-gofuckyourself-yl" substituted oripavine like etorphine, but not with the N-methyl or N-phenethyl that makes for good MORs.

BTW N-gofuckyourself-yl means cyclo-xxxxx-ylmethyl or allyl, etc. Those fucking intermediate length small ring/double bond systems on all the antagonists. I prefer N-gofuckyourselfyl- group though. I'm gonna suggest a nomenclature change at the next ACS (chem society) meeting.

[Duckfeet]

The only thing bupe is good for is for pretending you aren't doing dope...but if you want to "remember" then quit bupe...on day three, you'll remember real well that you are on dope, and all of a sudden bupe will look reallly good. Bupe is false promise, to me. When you kick, it's just as ferocious as any other opy...but somehow they've figured out a way to take the pleasure out of it. Thanks a lot.

[pharmboy]

Its the Naltrexone in the Suboxone now if you got Subutex

you wont have as much of that opiate blocking problem.

[mikells43]

Its the Naltrexone in the Suboxone now if you got Subutex

you wont have as much of that opiate blocking problem.

that is a myth, it is the bupe that binds to the receptors causing a blockaide for all other opiates, the bupe secures teh receptor and lets nothing on, not even nalxoone will pull it off in normal doses. http://gracermedicalgroup.com/resources/articles/rf_file_0009.pdf theres a great article on the subject.


http://naabt.org/collateral/How_Bupe_Works.pdf

theres a diagram how it works.





also for wanting to get high, find something to do, do anything to get out of that obsession before it becomes a compaulsion. mow the grass, shovel snow if u live where its cold. clean ur room/house, walk dog, do anything that involves u moving and repititous work that requires ur focus so ur mind is on what ur doing. at 4 months i was like that too. i was calling people all day long everyday wanting to use. dont sweat it, allways remember it gets worse before it gets better, thats something that keeps me thinking positive, so if its bad how how much worse could it get, it has to get better soon right??? just hang in there. ull do fine.

[born2lose]

allways remember it gets worse before it gets better, thats something that keeps me thinking positive, so if its bad how how much worse could it get, it has to get better soon right??? just hang in there. ull do fine.


WORD

[pharmboy]

It fucking figures, I just looked it up and the only reason

they put Naloxone in Bup is so you dont want to shoot it.

I stand corrected.

[born2lose]

It fucking figures, I just looked it up and the only reason

they put Naloxone in Bup is so you dont want to shoot it.

I stand corrected.

true...but someone who has suboxone in their system wont be affected at all by the nalaxone
the only thing it does is hopefully stop people who are dependent on their DOC (dope,OC,wtever it is) from shooting the sub

[Papa Verine]

I think that your problem is you say you've been "clean for 2 months". Doing dupe every day does nothing to bring your tolerance down, so you have not been clean as in opiate free completely. If you were really clean all this time your tolerance would be way down and the methadone would have gotten you high. But remember, being on bupe keeps your tolerance up unles you taper it way down...then get high.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

The only thing bupe is good for is for pretending you aren't doing dope...but if you want to "remember" then quit bupe...on day three, you'll remember real well that you are on dope, and all of a sudden bupe will look reallly good. Bupe is false promise, to me. When you kick, it's just as ferocious as any other opy...but somehow they've figured out a way to take the pleasure out of it. Thanks a lot.

VERY WELL PUT D.F. -EXCELLENT TAKE ON IT IN SO FEW WORDS

[Inspektahdek]

im trying, I ran out of my 100mcg fentys a week ago and luckily I traveled with my suboxone or I would be hating life, I was at a party the first day of withdrawal didnt think about it because I havent wded in a long time and when I got home took suboxone and forgot what w/d was

btw guys im alive

[collegekid]

Sometimes buprenorphine can be a absolute lifesaver!

Other times it can be one of the most frustrating drugs I have ever encountered...

[chopstix]

Fuck, I think the stuff is a gawdsend. I'm well everyday, I can chip a lil here and there if I want, (worst case is I have to wait until tomorrow if I've taken >4mg which doesn't usually happen till afternoon), it in itself gives me a nice little glow, especially the evening dose. It's basically taken the worst part of being a junkie out of my life, except the vein thing and that's getting to be a problem but I've gotten the sub to the point where I think it's rather benign missed, I'm drawing a completely clear solution and I'm sure it's the filler that was causing problems for people.

The only problem is, some day I'm gonna have to quit and the shit is expensive, but I figure a slow taper and I'll be ok.. I'm not constipated, my sex drive comes back after the real dope is out of my system, I"m not dopesick and I've even figured out how to jump back and forth with minimal problem.

I swear, this stuff is a miracle drug.

[mikells43]

Fuck, I think the stuff is a gawdsend. I'm well everyday, I can chip a lil here and there if I want, (worst case is I have to wait until tomorrow if I've taken >4mg which doesn't usually happen till afternoon), it in itself gives me a nice little glow, especially the evening dose. It's basically taken the worst part of being a junkie out of my life, except the vein thing and that's getting to be a problem but I've gotten the sub to the point where I think it's rather benign missed, I'm drawing a completely clear solution and I'm sure it's the filler that was causing problems for people.

The only problem is, some day I'm gonna have to quit and the shit is expensive, but I figure a slow taper and I'll be ok.. I'm not constipated, my sex drive comes back after the real dope is out of my system, I"m not dopesick and I've even figured out how to jump back and forth with minimal problem.

I swear, this stuff is a miracle drug.



alot of people have that same opinion too. i mean 10 years ago if u ran out u were sick or desperate for a while. even if u wanted to quit, it was eather go to the clinic daily or suffer for a long time. now theres bupe. i swear if i wasn't such a dumbass i would have bought stock in this shit back in 2000 , and if i wasn't so lazy now id look it up to see how much it went up. and still is going to go up. theres more bupe docs in the making too. the new campagine out is that any doc can write for any drug, but only a small precentage can write for bupe, and that figure is staggering. even if we arn't talking pill addiction that puts the %tage down lower. anywho good nite guys.

[collegekid]

I'm not constipated, my sex drive comes back after the real dope is out of my system, I"m not dopesick and I've even figured out how to jump back and forth with minimal problem.

I've figured out how to jump to and from the bupe without much of a problem. There is about 4 hours of dopesickness(at least the onset of the symptoms) going to and from the drug. Aside from that, it is a walk in the park.

Bupe keeps me on my toes, though. Generally, if I am on a full agonist opioid, and someone calls me because they are holding "such-and-such drug", I'd be all over it... even when I'm broke. The buprenorphine forces me to use my head in these situations. If I buy the dope, I need to remember that it will not be instant gratification, that I will have to wait a day or two to use it. This is a huge deterrent for me. It also allows me to plan my use more accurately... sort of keeps me honest, at least with myself.

[chopstix]

I've figured out how to jump to and from the bupe without much of a problem. There is about 4 hours of dopesickness(at least the onset of the symptoms) going to and from the drug. Aside from that, it is a walk in the park.

Bupe keeps me on my toes, though. Generally, if I am on a full agonist opioid, and someone calls me because they are holding "such-and-such drug", I'd be all over it... even when I'm broke. The buprenorphine forces me to use my head in these situations. If I buy the dope, I need to remember that it will not be instant gratification, that I will have to wait a day or two to use it. This is a huge deterrent for me. It also allows me to plan my use more accurately... sort of keeps me honest, at least with myself.

How much do you take a day? I (usually) dose 2mg at a time, first thing in the am, early afternoon, sometimes late afternoon/mid evening and usually an hour or so before bed. FWIW - I've noticed that I tend to use less overall if I'm insufflating instead of IV, 4-6mg/day up the bracket.

If I use 2mg (4 is doable, but I can feel the blockage starting) and then get loaded, I just don't do any more bup that day and all I really suffer is a little dip in energy when I get back on it, it really doesn't fuck with me much. I've gone as much as three days in a row using without the bup, and within 12 hours of my last shot, I can use the subutex without feeling like I've taken an antagonist. Suboxone seems a little less effective, I think my experience is a little skewed because I usually IV but I def. prefer the tex over the xone no matter the ROA, the tex just seems stronger to me..

[deathboy]

Fuck, I think the stuff is a gawdsend. I'm well everyday, I can chip a lil here and there if I want, (worst case is I have to wait until tomorrow if I've taken >4mg which doesn't usually happen till afternoon), it in itself gives me a nice little glow, especially the evening dose. It's basically taken the worst part of being a junkie out of my life, except the vein thing and that's getting to be a problem but I've gotten the sub to the point where I think it's rather benign missed, I'm drawing a completely clear solution and I'm sure it's the filler that was causing problems for people.

The only problem is, some day I'm gonna have to quit and the shit is expensive, but I figure a slow taper and I'll be ok.. I'm not constipated, my sex drive comes back after the real dope is out of my system, I"m not dopesick and I've even figured out how to jump back and forth with minimal problem.

I swear, this stuff is a miracle drug.

It is a miracle drug - especially if you're going to remain on indefinitely (as I plan on doing).

I'm blessed in that my insurance covers it - $7 co-pay for 90 2mg Subutex. I'm prescribed 12 mg qd but tend to stay in the 6mg - 8mg range. I'm a frigging pack rat and hoard the **** b/c I mistrust the gummint and to some extent my doctor lol.

All of the media hysteria over "diversion" eventually will create more restrictions - or the manufacturer may discontinue Subutex altogether. If that happens I'm going back on the full agonists 24/7.

As for price perhaps it will fall when the patent expires - generic bupe could become a reality.

DB

[chopstix]

Media hype and diversion aren't going to affect anything, people have been diverting opiates as long as the pharm companies have been selling them. There's too much money involved, they're not going anywhere.

I'm only paying $6-8/ea. at the moment but the Doctor is raping me at $100 per visit which she just cut to every other month, so it's not TOO bad, cheaper than dope but still an expensive drug. Insurance would be nice..

[collegekid]

How much do you take a day? I (usually) dose 2mg at a time, first thing in the am, early afternoon, sometimes late afternoon/mid evening and usually an hour or so before bed. FWIW - I've noticed that I tend to use less overall if I'm insufflating instead of IV, 4-6mg/day up the bracket.

If I use 2mg (4 is doable, but I can feel the blockage starting) and then get loaded, I just don't do any more bup that day and all I really suffer is a little dip in energy when I get back on it, it really doesn't fuck with me much. I've gone as much as three days in a row using without the bup, and within 12 hours of my last shot, I can use the subutex without feeling like I've taken an antagonist. Suboxone seems a little less effective, I think my experience is a little skewed because I usually IV but I def. prefer the tex over the xone no matter the ROA, the tex just seems stronger to me..

I, too, use 2mg each day. 2mg alleviates my physical withdrawal symptoms, except for immediately following a binge. I dose 1mg in the morning, 1mg in the evening... both insufflated.

2mg provides good coverage, but doesnt block and hold onto the receptors the way 4mg and above does. If I want to get high, I can do so in roughly 36 hours. After 24 I will be feeling a little ill, but I'll usually get some hydro or a few roxis to tide me over until I can fully enjoy my DOC.

Anymore bupe doesn't serve a purpose for me. If I am really craving something, upping the dose to 3mg does help, though.

[mikells43]

as long as drug compaines keep making pills theres going to be diversions, hell people divert vigra cause someone wants a boner, people divert oxy cause someone wants to get high. the ceo of rikett benkister(people who make bupe) said if 10 people were on sub and 9 of them were selling it for dope, and 1 was taking it normally and living a good life then thats well worth it cause it has helped one person. and if u look at every other controlled drug theres a signif diversion rate with most of them. i even consider online pharms as a diversion source too, and there diverting the shit out of antidepressants , boner pills, antibotics, sleeping pills, and benzos. as long as u sell something , someones goign to buy it garenteed, i sell all kinds of shit on ebay. once i sold a BROKEN boat seat and someone bought it.

[chopstix]

I, too, use 2mg each day. 2mg alleviates my physical withdrawal symptoms, except for immediately following a binge. I dose 1mg in the morning, 1mg in the evening... both insufflated.

2mg provides good coverage, but doesnt block and hold onto the receptors the way 4mg and above does. If I want to get high, I can do so in roughly 36 hours. After 24 I will be feeling a little ill, but I'll usually get some hydro or a few roxis to tide me over until I can fully enjoy my DOC.

Anymore bupe doesn't serve a purpose for me. If I am really craving something, upping the dose to 3mg does help, though.

I actually use around 6-8mg/day at this point, 2mg at a time (usually) IV.

The first time I used sub, I went from 2G/day black to under 2mg/day insufflated in under a week, I was surprised at how easy it is to drop after the first couple days. The only reason I use as much as I do now is psychological compulsion, I know I don't need it but I feel it and like it..

4mg is about where I start to get blocking effects too but I can break through it easy enough, dope is cheap here so I just do more, although the quality has to be pretty good if I'm trying to push through a single 4mg dose - single 2mg doses spread out seem easier to override. Interesting side "effect" of the bup is that I suffer a lot fewer histamine based effects - less itchy, redfaced, pinned eyed scratchiness. It's kinda nice to have just a little bup in me with the H, it really cuts down on some of the less pleasant effects.. Weird stuff..

[Duckfeet]

I found it the same as methadone: not any buzz after first few weeks, then it's like doing nothing...not too bad to drop down on either...and when I finally jumped, was total hell, and I wasnt able to stick with "jump.." Operates on same theory methadone does, and to me, has exact same problems: constipation, and the final jump, where once u stop it altogether...well, then u may find its not so wonderful after all. I'm a little more bitter than most, since I didn't listen to the more experienced guys on heroin-detox.com, and actually believed the docs and the NAABT website, but I found that the withdrawals were what the people always found with opiates that bind well w/receptors to the point of blocking other opiates: that they were hell to detox off of...

Main thing to remember, is that they *are* opiates. I tend to forget I'm doing opiates on methadone also, but I have had much more experience detoxing off of methadone, so I don't kid myself, but do know that my system has opiates pouring thru it, while I find that on bupe, I'm able to pretend better that I'm not full of dope, but that just made the detox that much more vexing...

Best wishes, tho, to anybody in this game...always a tuff one to leave behind...

[chopstix]

Out of curiosity, what was your dosage when you jumped and the few days leading up to it? I'm really starting to think micrograms count in the bup game..

[collegekid]

I actually use around 6-8mg/day at this point, 2mg at a time (usually) IV.

The first time I used sub, I went from 2G/day black to under 2mg/day insufflated in under a week, I was surprised at how easy it is to drop after the first couple days. The only reason I use as much as I do now is psychological compulsion, I know I don't need it but I feel it and like it..

4mg is about where I start to get blocking effects too but I can break through it easy enough, dope is cheap here so I just do more, although the quality has to be pretty good if I'm trying to push through a single 4mg dose - single 2mg doses spread out seem easier to override. Interesting side "effect" of the bup is that I suffer a lot fewer histamine based effects - less itchy, redfaced, pinned eyed scratchiness. It's kinda nice to have just a little bup in me with the H, it really cuts down on some of the less pleasant effects.. Weird stuff..

Ahh... my mistake. But yes, it is easy to get a little carried away with the bupe. It provides so little in the aspect of what we, as drug users want, that it is easy to convince yourself you want/need more.

Bupe is a very strong drug. Even if, at times, it doesn't feel that strong...

[Duckfeet]

I got down to 30mg on methadone, then went to clinic, where they switched me to bupe--after a week on oxycontin, which I took exactly as told.

Went from 16mg, over a month period down to 1mg, without any noticable trouble...stayed at 1mg however long they said--I believe it was about 4 days, and then jumped. Whole time I was going daily to meetings, and thought of myself as "sober," as all this had been done under doc's care, and had just gotten 8 years C&S in AA...

Days one and two of jump weren't that bad, tho I felt a little worried, but nothing major. Day three it started to get bad, typical withdrawal symptoms...and by day four was so sick I could hardly move, and had a friend who I begged to get me some smack--for which I'll be forever grateful--and that began this last year and a half of on again, off again, of dope/methadone, etc., etc...

Heroin-Detox.com guys were correct. The jump is tough. If I did it again, I wouldnt be near as arrogant about it, and would try to get down to .5mg for at least 3-4 days, then try to do .5mg every other day for a bit, then jump, and maybe do it inhouse, in a detox setting...

Has really tuff PAWS...which I try not to believe in, as I find that the much of it is expectations, but Im cursed now with knowledge of just how tuff it was...and cost me a bundle to find it out too. methadone, to me, is more "the devil I know..." and bupe, since I didn't "feel anything" I need to be really careful not to underestimate, if I switched again...I'm at 50mg daily, mdone, right now, but have no urge to go thru what I went thru on bupe, again...too much unknowns, and I've learned the hard way--same stuff was said about methadone maintenance, way back in late sixties--to be very skeptical of anything that people are always quoting shit telling me how wonderful it is...but main thing I learned...with opiates is
"There Is No Free Lunch."

I play, I pay...

Out of curiosity, what was your dosage when you jumped and the few days leading up to it? I'm really starting to think micrograms count in the bup game..

[chopstix]

Yeah, I think 1mg is def. too high to jump from, seems to be a consensus around here these days; and I'm not surprised the clinic didn't/doesn't know better.. 30ish days off 'done isn't very long either.. We all pay, whether we know it's coming or not.. IMO, best you can do is let your body adjust as slow as possible which is a bitch in itself 'cause it just drags it out.. Most of the symptoms I can handle but the insomnia is what really gets me and what usually talks me into calling up Jose and starting over again.. Depressing fucking subject.

[GoddessofRATs]

You know something, that JUMP is so hard with any drug. Now this little story is a bit off, it has to do with those nicotine patches. Ok... so i got those patches to quit smoking (this was like 6 year or so ago). And i did it just like they told me. I than got down to their lowest dose and was instructed to stay on the lowest dose for i think 8 weeks. Than after that lowest dose faze you don't go down to a lower dose, you just jump.

So that day finally came and i thought ok, it's time to not use any patches, i did everything like i was supposed to so i should be fine. OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!! it was fucking horrible. I got up in the morning, got dressed and i was ok. I got to work at 6 am and started doing my morning duties and i suddenly started feeling so sleepy, i fell asleep standing up. And than i got anxiety and sweats. I was like WTF? Since i knew what opiate w/d felt like i knew what this was. Someone opiate niave may think they were just tired but nope, i was in nicotine w/d. So i was like OMG, there is no way I'm gonna get threw the day like this.

I went into the office and sat in the chair and i fell asleep. My co worker was like whats wrong? You look awful. I said i stopped the nicotine patch today and i am in w/d. She didn't believe me LOL, she was like "Nahhh that can't be it"

But than i remembered i had two or three patches in my locker. So i went and put one on and within 15 minutes i was perfect again, i was so energetic and alert. I started feeling so hyper and GOOD!

So what i did was, i took the lowest dose and cut it in half and put it on and stayed on that for a week, than the next week i cut that half in half and wore that for a week, than i cute the half of a half in half LOL. And so on and so on. Until i got down to a tiny little piece of Nicotine patch, it was about the size of a sunflower seed. And after that i said ok this should be ok to jump from. NOPE, the next morning i went to work without that sunflower seed size patch on and i had the same problem from when i first jumped but it wasn't as bad but it was still bad enough to where i couldn't take it. So than i just took a half of that tiny piece and used that for a week and than i used an itsie bitsie piece and used that for a week and than i was able to jump.

Can you believe that crap? I don't know how these other people could just jump after getting to the lowest nicotine patch. I don't know, i sure wasn't able to. Anyway, i quit for a year and start smoking again and i still am to this day.

But yea, it was horrible. I know you can't compare Nicotine w/d to oppie w/d but i was just using that story as an example of jumping. It ain't easy jumping at all for anything ya know.

GOR

[chopstix]

But you did manage a taper, right? Still smoke free??

I used the lozenges and gum, I chewed that damned gum for a year and finally just started chewing less and less. The nicotine thing was a lot easier for me than I thought it would be, but my GF is still on the gum after 4 years. I'll have 4 years smoke free in about two weeks :)

I swear by commit and nicorette, I think patches are a fundamentally flawed idea - smokers want nicotine in big blasts, not a little trickle. The 4mg supplements are the way to go..

</derail>

[Duckfeet]

Yeah: I think me and u have talked about it, have a pretty healthy respectful attitude towards Bupe...I try just to be realisitic, but not to let it get to me, either...anticipating kicking is always the worst...and it always ends, and life gets better. I think first time I just wasn't prepared for it, while when I kicked methadone, I had heard so many horror stories, that I found it "not so bad... so this time I'm still hoping to drop down on methadone, want off it, but I'm not so sure of it, and def have mixed feelings about bupe...but like u said, a bit depressing, and the part of this life that can really wear u down, no lie...

Yeah, I think 1mg is def. too high to jump from, seems to be a consensus around here these days; and I'm not surprised the clinic didn't/doesn't know better.. 30ish days off 'done isn't very long either.. We all pay, whether we know it's coming or not.. IMO, best you can do is let your body adjust as slow as possible which is a bitch in itself 'cause it just drags it out.. Most of the symptoms I can handle but the insomnia is what really gets me and what usually talks me into calling up Jose and starting over again.. Depressing fucking subject.

[mikells43]

i have no intentions of coming off of this bupe right now cause things are too well. i dont care if i ever come off. but theres prob goign to be a time. as with anything in life its tough to find a diff way of doing thingns. and opiates are 2 times harder cause ur physcally addicted to the fuckers on top of everything, wouldnt it be nice just to take something here and there and have no addiction attached to it. boy that would be fucking great huh. the bupe company has to make smaller doses. i keep calling them and bitching on their bitch line about smaller doses cause its so hard to taper with a 2mg dose pill.

[chopstix]

its so hard to taper with a 2mg dose pill.

1/4 pill == .5mg? 1/8th == .25??

There's information on this board about how to titrate 8mg pills into solution and measure 100mcg, or smaller, increments (even easier with the 2mg pills); it's not as hard as you might think and if the calculations are difficult, google makes a great calculator..

I've made a few posts in this forum that describe getting subs into solution and if those don't help, I'd be happy to make another post or help over PM..

[mikells43]

no im just saying that the normal person on sub isn't going to think of that. what if something dumb like the bupe isn't dis evenly thru-out the whole tab. im not ready to go that low yet. but soon enough. right now im holding comfy on 8mg of subutex.

[melancholy]

1/4 pill == .5mg? 1/8th == .25??

There's information on this board about how to titrate 8mg pills into solution and measure 100mcg, or smaller, increments (even easier with the 2mg pills); it's not as hard as you might think and if the calculations are difficult, google makes a great calculator..

I've made a few posts in this forum that describe getting subs into solution and if those don't help, I'd be happy to make another post or help over PM..

Once you have that solution, what do you do with it? Bupe has a poor bio-availability doesn't it? I suppose you could hold the solution under your tongue for sublingual absorption or plug it. It wouldn't be IV'able would it, due to the naloxone? Assuming the 8mg pills were suboxone and not subutex..

[Duckfeet]

If I used bupe again to finish my methadone detox--I might, haven't decided--I'd just drop down to 1mg--saving a few of the 2mg subs for final jump, then take 1mg for a few days, then bust that in half to .5mg for a few days, then every other day, then jump...that's low enough, and isnt that hard to split up...u can buy one of those little splitters in any drugstore, and it doesn't have to be a perfect split, and if you're motivate, it's o.k., mostly it's the mental, gotta be motivated, to remember eventually freedom awaits...

Easy for me to say: I know every way to fail...but every once in a while I succeed, so I dont give up...I've had happy years off of drugs, and up and down years on them, and I try to be reasonable about the whole thing...

If I cant get off methadone, I'll switch to another clinic, that allows split doses, since the pain is just too much for one dose, and maybe that would work o.k. For me, for maintenance, I can't do bupe, they don't work for me...and Im too worried I'd start creeping up. I was o.k. at 4mg daily, but the constipation drove me up a wall...and the cravings never left, and going up scares me: I"ve read enough, maybe not to be *convinced*, but at least to be *wary* of longterm use at higher doses...I think we just have to go with our guts on this one...best wishes to anybody, however they decide to roll the dice...

[timshanki]

I know the feeling of wanting to get high...It can be so easily justified w things like: the time you already put in being of ur DOC, complacency, the "only doing it once" rationale, and many more. Keeping busy is the key. For me, I use physical fitness to keep me at bay. When I use my DOC I go off the deep end...I periodically get it for free, and for the most part, I use the opportunity to gain monetary benefits. But, there are times when I have enough income and my "clients" seem to be having more fun than myself and I fall victim to my temptation. During these binges I lose weight and muscle...and after its all over and I get back on track, I still have a week or so until I can start my life again. I too feel that Subs work in different ways for different people. But for me it works great. It allows me to sleep at night, study during the day, and produces a healthy appetite-(which is hard to come by when playin' the game we all partake in). Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at is that u should find sumthing that fullfills u spiritually and satisfys ur interests...but most importantly sumthing that u work for-so when u jepordize it w getting high u feel it's not worth it.

P.S. I'm new to the site....I've been reading past threads
for a few months and I was finally made a member. I thought
I was never going to get in...I just wanna say that I have learned
sooooo much from the fine people of this site. Thank you! It is
good to know I'm not the only person who is an addict that cares
about other things other than schemeing for my next fix. Peace y'all!

[chopstix]

Once you have that solution, what do you do with it? Bupe has a poor bio-availability doesn't it? I suppose you could hold the solution under your tongue for sublingual absorption or plug it. It wouldn't be IV'able would it, due to the naloxone? Assuming the 8mg pills were suboxone and not subutex..

Yeah, don't swallow it. You could put it on a small cotton ball and put it under your tongue or in your cheek, you could mix up a batch and use a nasal sprayer - there's a post of mine in this forum on how to do that, you actually can IV suboxone, the naloxone is a non-issue if there aren't any o-agonists in your system but it carries risk mostly due to the filler and other risks associated with IV use of pills. You could squirt it in yur butt too.. With dosages small enough to warrant titration, you're not gonna be dealing with a lot of liquid so even just dripping it under your tongue would probably work fine..

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned that I've noticed, is that it's pretty easy to eyeball doses once the pill is powderised, if you insufflate the powder with any sort of regularity, you should be able to eyeball down to the .5-1mg range easily enough..

[Chicago]

I agree 100%
Sometimes buprenorphine can be a absolute lifesaver!

Other times it can be one of the most frustrating drugs I have ever encountered...

[HistoryofMadness]

suck it up man. the whole point of the blocking effect is to give you a grace period so you can get over the mental obsession without doing something stupid (like getting high - if you're trying to quit).

get off of opiate maintenance if you want to get high.

i am in NO WAY advocating the twelve step program but a good friend of mine who i respect very much says that bupe was great for her because she 12-stepped the craving and obsession while killing the physical shit with bupe...

she would say you wanna cry so bad you wanna get high. i might agree.

anyway fucking suck it up and walk through the fire. until you make it through several of these little episodes, the desire will never get any weaker. it gets better man, just act as if you don't have any interest in getting high at all.

[mikells43]

suck it up man. the whole point of the blocking effect is to give you a grace period so you can get over the mental obsession without doing something stupid (like getting high - if you're trying to quit).

get off of opiate maintenance if you want to get high.

i am in NO WAY advocating the twelve step program but a good friend of mine who i respect very much says that bupe was great for her because she 12-stepped the craving and obsession while killing the physical shit with bupe...

she would say you wanna cry so bad you wanna get high. i might agree.

anyway fucking suck it up and walk through the fire. until you make it through several of these little episodes, the desire will never get any weaker. it gets better man, just act as if you don't have any interest in getting high at all.


agreed

[kil092286]

suck it up man. the whole point of the blocking effect is to give you a grace period so you can get over the mental obsession without doing something stupid (like getting high - if you're trying to quit).

get off of opiate maintenance if you want to get high.

i am in NO WAY advocating the twelve step program but a good friend of mine who i respect very much says that bupe was great for her because she 12-stepped the craving and obsession while killing the physical shit with bupe...

she would say you wanna cry so bad you wanna get high. i might agree.

anyway fucking suck it up and walk through the fire. until you make it through several of these little episodes, the desire will never get any weaker. it gets better man, just act as if you don't have any interest in getting high at all.

Thanks man that post actually meant something to me its to bad I AM a junky because I was already gonna get high I am still gonnna get high... u know.. once you got the thought in your head that your gonna do it you can't really stop it... well I made another post in the pharmaceuticals on which pills I should take... thanks for the advice if I dont take it to use now I will keep it in my head for the next time.. or maybe the time after that lol.

[BettyBeautiful]

Kil-

I want to get high too, I just started bupe two weeks ago this Tuesday.

I understand what you're going through, I try to remind myself why I started on bupe in the first place. Most of the time when it gets to me, I come here to read what others are going through and talk a little about my situation. I find that just the thought of this community of people who can relate and "get it" is therapeutic in itself.

I also agree with Duckfeet, I am thankful that I did not have to kick cold turkey and this buys me enough time to work on my life, before I really become 100% opiate free. Plus the time it takes to prepare to get high, well, I can only equate to a waiting period for a gun where I'm from, it keeps you from making rash decisions, the ones that I may end up feeling worse over than the craving was to begin with....???

So in a nutshell that is how I handle my cravings, I try to keep my dose low, but when they are really bad I take a couple (2-4)mg's and maybe a benzo. Mainly, I just try to get out of my own head.

Good luck and I hope this helped a bit...
-betty

[vishvm]

It seems that for the majority of people bupe is relatively easy to drop the dosage down, but extremely difficult to jump off.
I wonder how someone would go if they tapered to the lowest possible dose (0.2 - 0.25 mg) and then spaced the doses further and further apart (every 2nd/3rd/4th/5th day) if eventually a point would be reached where the dose would be so low that any wd's would be purely psychosomatic.

A few years ago I was using a lot and taking my bupe fairly irregularly. I went bushwalking for a few weeks and prior to going I had a huge dose of 18mg. This held me for about 6 days and then slowly but surely withdrawals kicked in. I was constantly tired and felt like I was wearing a lead suit , and couldn't sleep. It didn't feel like heroin wd's however - more like the last few days of withdrawal, but it was ongoing.

I had a very small dose of buoe (about 1 mg) and felt restored to humanity. More than feeling normal, I felt wonderful. After a few days I started to feel crap again and had an even smaller amount. This seemed to get me through a few more days and each time I tried to take a little less and stretch the time between doses a little more.

The suffering was quite minimal but I blew it when I returned to the big smoke and with my drastically reduced tolerance found I was able to get loaded off $25 worth of dope (.05 g) whereas before I left I needed a quarter (.25 g) to get properly stoned.

I believe that I could have made it had I not succumbed to my opiate desires. I understand that some people just want to be off the shit but my attitude is that I'm on maintainance already, so why the big rush to get clean. I'm functioning and able to work/sleep/enjoy life, so why put myself through any undue pressure. Perhaps if I was going OS or had some urgent need to be totally clean I would jump, but bupe is pretty hardcore stuff, so I think slowly slowly.

Someone said bupe sticks to the receptors like concrete and I tend to agree with them. I had no problems going from 6 -2 mg, and from 2 - .6 mg I only suffered minor discomfort. When I stopped was when I suffered No matter what dose you are jumping off from, it's still a 100% jump so the body is getting 'something' regularly, then nothing. This is why I think missing days is of extremely high value. It trains the body to do without for longer and longer periods of time.

I'm not ready to taper yet (currently sitting between 1-2 mg's daily) because I am still using occasionally. When I stop bingeing is when I think I can again try to put theory into practice.

[Duckfeet]

I think it's like others have said: maybe we dont yet understand dosage and detox good enough yet...most junkies on methadone learned thru anecdotal evidence, and eventually figured out that methadone seemed to take longer, and that once could drop down fairly quickly to around 30mg, then slow way down, particularly in final 10mg or so.

My attitude toward bupe has changed after a couple of times on it, once on maint, and once detox, and once a combo, since I wasn't successful at any of them, for me, bupe without doing a whole bunch of other stuff, to change my life, wasn't successful, while methadone isn't totally successful, but for longterm junkies does seem to work better than bupe.

Main thing with bupe that so many have found, is that it is much stronger opiate than it *seems*, and that is why most of us dont realize how much we are doing, since there is no--or very little--buzz...but the successful detoxes, usually got it second time around, when they wouldn't jump at 1mg, but would actually drop down to .5 or even .25 mg, hassle tho it was to cut up, crush up little portions, then jump to every other day...just the dosage needed adjusting so as to not have overwhelming withdrawals....

Best wishes and Happy New Year...

[zenpunk]

Jumping from Bupe was really hard, but it was easier than detoxing from H (that was impossible for me). I jumped from like .25mg in the end and did a really fast taper because I used to abuse Bupe. The poster that said that the PAWS from Bupe is long and agonizing was correct. I took my last Bupe dose on December 1st and I am still sick.

[HistoryofMadness]

Thanks man that post actually meant something to me its to bad I AM a junky because I was already gonna get high I am still gonnna get high... u know.. once you got the thought in your head that your gonna do it you can't really stop it... well I made another post in the pharmaceuticals on which pills I should take... thanks for the advice if I dont take it to use now I will keep it in my head for the next time.. or maybe the time after that lol.

yes i do know that autopilot that drives my fucking truck to the fucking dope man's house... that thought latches onto my nuts and won't let go.

but they're just thoughts man, and they're your's, so think something else.

or fuck it go get high. i'm sure i would if the shit didn't almost kill me.

[WarmCyanide]

yes i do know that autopilot that drives my fucking truck to the fucking dope man's house... that thought latches onto my nuts and won't let go.

but they're just thoughts man, and they're your's, so think something else.

or fuck it go get high. i'm sure i would if the shit didn't almost kill me.

HoM.... if you ever leave this site, i will kick you in the dick.

good post.

[mikells43]

any opiate sucks to come off of period. i have learned that, i think we all have. even fucking ultram sucks to come off of and its not even a fucking controlled substance(tho i think it should be), i have heard of people having oxy, fent and other big meds in the house but going to the trams for their pleasure. anywho any opiate is going to suck to come off of, its all how the person comin off of it preceives things, if negitive then results are negitive, if positive the results still might be negitive but theres a chance of positivity in the long run. no one can really predict this like the weather, if so there woudl be tons of bozos out there trying to make money doing it.

[Duckfeet]

I agree: I just guess we don't usually get enough daily dose of anything but buprenorphene or methadone, so our bodies do get used to it. I've never thought methadone was *that* bad, as I've kicked heroin and dilaudids, and they were bad too, if I had enough of them to get all saturated with them...

nd I'm a strong believer in attitude being huge...as you are going to go thru some tuff times, and if one doesn't have something to sustain them, way too easy for brain to say "the hell with this," and go back out, time and time again...I think problem with bupe--with me anyway--is I had kind of fooled myself into thinking I wouldn't feel anything, when I jumped at 1mg, and the physical were about like jumping at--oh--20mg or so methadone. It wasn't really *horrible* but I was just not as prepared as I thought I was...in hindsight...

I think like anything else, one has to get honest with oneself, and the drugs, and about whether one has sustainable motivation for staying quit...as it eventually does get better, and sometimes all the talk about EDS and PAWS discourage people to give up without even really trying.

I'm going to drop down again, if I can, maybe to 30mg mdone, then see how I'm doing, if I can hang in there, I might switch to bupe, for continued taper, just to throw a curve at my methadone sucking receptors, and then try to get down to 1mg rather quickly again, like I did last time, but this time, go to .5mg, maybe even less, see how it goes...but that's only if I'm doing daily meetings and whatever else I need to do to keep me going....works for me, and I have to believe that I can do it....

any opiate sucks to come off of period. i have learned that, i think we all have. even fucking ultram sucks to come off of and its not even a fucking controlled substance(tho i think it should be), i have heard of people having oxy, fent and other big meds in the house but going to the trams for their pleasure. anywho any opiate is going to suck to come off of, its all how the person comin off of it preceives things, if negitive then results are negitive, if positive the results still might be negitive but theres a chance of positivity in the long run. no one can really predict this like the weather, if so there woudl be tons of bozos out there trying to make money doing it.

[mikells43]

im staying on bupe for anouther year prob, i dont care tho. when i come off cause i feel so good and its normal feeling too. u should try it, i u prob could benifit from it. illl talk in anouther year abotu my upcoming taper, for now fuck it i have more shit to work on with myself.

and this finishes my 900th post!:)

[vishvm]

I'm going to stay on BMT for as long as necessary.
I do want to come off, but I see no point in putting undue stress on myself.

I've been maintaining and if I can 'maintain' with less and less until the addiction could possibly cease to be , in my mind this is better than creating an artificial 'end/jumping point' where I will feel withdrawal (part of the reason I started BMT in the first place).

If I see the end in sight and I'm hurting I'll dose with a little less and try to make it last a little longer and let my body be my guide. The one thing that IMO puts bupe into a different category than other opies is the fact that tapering is possible. I could never reduce on H or Oxy's and not want to take more.

Never been on done so I can't comment there other than the fact that it is a full agonist and would possibly make it easier to use and then go back to done (maybe upping the dose). Chopping and changing on bupe isn't much fun if you acquire another 'H' habit. This has happened to me a few times, and whenever I go back to bupe I feel flat and crap for a few days.

[mikells43]

all the people taht kno about bupe say that if u push urself to taper its going to be unsuccessful. the best tapers just happen. i dont kno what they mean by that. and anything i ever tried to taper off of i failed miserably and never came close till that small dose. hell i never made it past day 3 usually. then said fuck it and ate/snorted my norm and got my usual buz. anywho i dont think im coming off for a long time eather .

[SpecialGuy69]

all the people taht kno about bupe say that if u push urself to taper its going to be unsuccessful. the best tapers just happen. i dont kno what they mean by that.
what they mean is that once you are stable, you can naturally take a little less and a little less the next time, a little longer and a little longer between doses. I figured this out by necessity one month, I was in a bad spot, no refills for 16 days and all I had was 36 methadone 10mg's to make it through 16 days! Well, I ended up having 12 methadones LEFT OVER on refill day!!! I just took 5mg doses then later 2.5mg doses ONLY when needed. If I felt withdrawlish, I waited another hour to see if it went away before dosing- lots of times it did go away on it's own.

You don't really need a schedule or a plan. All you need is willpower, and a pen and paper to keep track of when you dose and how much. I made a spreadsheet that helps me figure out how much is in my system based on my doses and half-life, which for me on methadone is around 20 hrs. If anyone wants to use this chart, let me know.

BTW- with the methadone half-life build-up thing, if you are stabilized on a dose for 7 days, the amount in your system is a tiny bit less than double your daily dose, taking into account the half life of all previous doses. After 7 days, the amount in your system reaches equilibrium- there is the same amount leaving your system as entering it. It never goes above double your dose (for methadone- for longer half-life drugs it goes above double, but in less than a month, you reach equilibrium and levels stop going up)

Point is- Methadone and subutex dont build to massive levels your system over long periods of time- if you have been taking methadone/subutex (or even LAAM) for 20 years, you have the same amount in your bloodstream you did after 20 days.

Take the half-life expressed in days, times 10, to find the equilibrium point for any drug. For example, the generally accepted halflife for subutex is about 36 hours, or 1.5 days. so, 1.5*10=15 days to reach equilibrium.

If the half-life is 24 hours, the equilibrium level is twice the daily dose. At 36 hour halflife, the equilibrium level is 4 times the daily dose.

[SpecialGuy69]

Well, just 5 minutes ago I blew my taper. FUCK! I had a SUPER-FAST taper going- here\'s where I was at, started January 1st:
day 1: 55mg
day 2: 40mg
day 3: 30mg
day 4: 15mg
day 5: 12.5mg
day 6: 12.5mg
Today: 25mg. and it\'s only 11:00am. Fuckit. I was just so fuckin cold and sweaty and tired of feeling shitty. I have plenty of methadone- I just don\'t want to be on it if I can help it. The one good thing is I feel a bit better already and its only been 15 minutes since I took 20mg. Yes. It took me 10 minutes to write this short-ass post because I\'m at work and its kinda busy.