How do you dose?

[kevin]

I take 24mg total per day. I just got back on two weeks ago so I'm just now getting stable. It's strange, but each time I go back on sub my dose gets higher. So hopefully I can just be on indefinitely from now on and not have to worry about being dopesick anymore. Anyway, I usually take 8mg when I wake up, 8mg at noon, and 8mg anywhere from 6-9pm. Does anyone else split up there doses throughout the day?

And also, do any of you shove the whole pill under your tongue or do you have to break it up? I have to at least split mine in half.

[greenfox]

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ANYWAYS to answer your question: I dose... when I CAN and when I WANT. Sometimes I'll go two days w/out SHIT. Then sometimes I'll dose 40+ mg in a day. It all depends. I posted on this somewhere before.

I find that:

1) alcohol potentiates
2) wait as long as you can to get " a buzz "
3) caffine works too, take it WHEN you are SICK and BEFORE your dose- wait as long as you can, then.. BANG! A speedy, opi- high. It's great. ! :)

Peace.

sig,fik,
-=gf

[mikells43]

ii am mastering the once a day thing. and alcohol makes me sick with bupe. also theres no buzz form bupe lol. its more of a feeling. i just got my computer back today and typing on it feels funny

[Suboxstitute]

I don't get high from bupe.... I wish. I started on 24mg in August but quickly realized WAY less than that was adequate to keep me feeling quite well, and now do 6mg per day (and stash the rest, since my doctor really WANTS me to be on 16mg at this point). Whatever. They'll come in handy at some point.

Whatever dose I was on, I did split the pill and I also split the dose, usually half in the am and the other half in the early evening. It just felt right to me.

Now, I can take 4mg in the morning and really forget about that second dose most days.. altho' by day three, I can tell the difference so usually take that xtra 2mg at that point.

It also depends on what your objective is - if you're willing to be on bupe indefinitely (I'm not, I'm having surgery next year and I want to be OFF)... you can definitely get by with a lower dose after the first couple weeks, as another wise poster just said. Even with a big habit.

Try this - drop to 12mg, a pill in the morning (cut in half and put under each side of your tongue) and then another half later on. Because of the long half-life, you shouldn't feel any different (if you do at all) until about day 3-4. Then, see how you feel. If you start craving like mad or don't feel well anymore, you can always add more back.

If you want to read more, naabt.org has a bupe board; it's different from this one. Fuck, you can't even say fuck there! You get the picture. But there is some good info and well-intended folk there.

Good luck! I do miss my pills.....at 4-6mg of bupe I do have some cravings. Not much supply though so I can't really do anything about it anyway.

I am bound and determined to do a sloooooooooooow taper into 2008....... so I can have surgery and not worry about waking up during the IV sedation (they use fent and versed; the bupe could block the fent if I'm still on consistently).

Plus, I might need pain meds after.

[kevin]

No, I'm not trying to get high off of them. In fact, I don't feel them at all.
I'm staying on it for the foreseeable future and no, I haven't been cheating.

Advice?

None really, I've already got a couple doctors. I was simply curious to see how people scheduled their dosing. Yes, I realize 24 is quite high, but I'm not too concerned at the moment. I've been through the suboxone gig before. I didn't really have any side effects, other than constipation but it's actually not that terrible. I've been able to poop.

Oh, and I've read the Ultimate Sub Guide like 12039423094523 times.

so there !#TIJ@#

I appreciate the advice, but I think I'll be alright. Really guys, I was just curious.

Oh, and I think everyone needs to remember that everybody's body is different so different doses work for different people.

[chopstix]

I usually either sniff it or shoot it, on occasion I'll be lazy and put no more than 4mg under my tongue but I never feel it sublingually. I've insufflated both as straight powder and mixed with saline. No matter the ROA, I use really small doses and more often than not, I can feel a rather marked opiated feeling, just a little massage at mu1.. Last night and first day after using H for a couple days, I was nodding pretty hard from 3 2mg IV shots of 'tex (each 2-4 hours apart) with 5mg valium and a few shots of Vodka.

Constipation isn't a major problem for me at 3-4 2mg doses a day. I frequently wake up, do my bup, drink some coffee and then do my business. I think constipation is a bigger problem for people who buy into >4mg doses multiple times a day..

I feel the insufflated doses as well, especially the dry ones. It seems like the saline nasal spray batches don't carry quite the kick that dry lines do (they do fight off wd really well though) but I've only done the spray with suboxone which consistently seems weaker to me no matter the ROA; although I was getting rather marked effects injecting suboxone at doses <2mg a few months ago and I don't believe naloxone holds a candle to the binding affinity of bup.

I don't advocate shooting it. If you do, I recommend COLD water and a wheel filter or cotton AT LEAST .5cm in diameter. With subutex, I draw a crystal clear solution, suboxone is obviously orange, but it shouldn't be cloudy at all.

If you cook it, $20 says you get an abscess if it doesn't clog up your rig.

[kyuss]

I always snorted mine.
Best effects in the 2-4 mg range.
Small opiate buzz the first week
that quickly went away.
They're a godsend when I'm kicking.

[kevin]

I have been fooling with the dosage a lot lately, but I have noticed that I can get BY on anything around 12mg up but that not all of my withdrawal symptoms, especially muscle spasms and insomnia, don't go away until about 20mg, maybe it's because I was on long-acting opiates. I don't know, when I was first on subs 8mg killed every symptom. The second time I was on it I was at 12mg and then tapered off after about six months on it and had no problems. So I AM hoping to taper down to at least 16 by around the middle of next week. Also, shooting 'tex and eating benzos and drinking seems like asking for trouble. But hey, I'm the dummy on 24mg of subs so I guess I shouldn't talk.

I can't snort suboxone anymore, I don't know if it's because of my tolerance or what, but I get no effects. First two times I was on subs and had a low dose, like when I was down to 2mg a day, I could snort 1mg and feel it. However, a friend of mine the other day snorted 2mg (he has almost no ope tolerance) and didn't feel a damn thing. Buprenorphine is a fucking weird drug.

[mikells43]

if u need 24mg of bupe DONT WORRY ABOUT IT, ITS NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL MAN RELAX, everyones different. I needed 24mg for my first 3 months, sometimes 32mg a day, i was a sick fucker, i never used herion or needles in my life, i just have a really sick mind and addictive personality. it does not matter how much or how little u used when it comes to bupe, it mattters how sick u are and how bad ur addiction has a grip on u. if u get shaky at anything less right now its not a big deal, take what u have to, at least ur not getting high thats the main thing, once u start to put days together then u can start to worry about going down lower, for now stay where ur at, learn how to cope and how to be normal. once the obsession to get high goes down some more and u have some more time then worry about how much ur taking. i kno no doc that critizes pts upon how much bupe there on, its based on each persons experence. i kno a kid that used 8 80's a day and is on 32mg a day he takes one big dose each morn, i kno a dude who was a bad herion addict, it takes him 45 days to go thru 30 8mg subutex(how is that poss? who knows) everyone reacts diff to this med. i would stick with the dose that ur comfy with for now, and then adjust as u accum clean time. thats what i did and its still working today!

[tptptp]

Snorting or under the tongue, definitely different effects. After one gets old the other may seem better. Snorting goes further but not quite as healthy. It's also not mentally good if you're bumping it all day if you're trying to get clean. Snorting seems to go about twice as far and may offer a little buzz for a short while.

I've known tons of people we've told to drop down some on (taking 24 to 32mg/day) and have yet to see ONE person who said they felt worst on a dose 8 or less (a couple on 12). Most feel better, but whatever floats your boat. Bupe is easier than most to taper on because it's active in such small amounts, but in the end it's still a real bitch to kick. So being on 24mg likely isn't helping. Research is starting to show that higher doses may have opposite of the intended effects.

It's worth giving it a drop a shot with a week or so to stabilize, if you feel better on 24, fine, but worth trying a much lower dose before you get accustomed to 24 because you're VERY unlikely to be getting ANY benefit above like 8-12mg. It causes significant WD's from doses as little as 1/8 of ONE mg....

Anyways know you were'nt asking but had to throw it in. Doctors try to always give people much more than needed. I don't know if it's what they were brainwashed to believe, if they're trying to get patients more hooked, or a combo of both.

It's not so much about purely the withdrawal, even if it were a horrible detox if you wanted to stay clean and thats ALL that matters and 24 was working well for you I'd say stick with it. But the kicker is that many feel BETTER on the lower dose, I know that's hard to understand for a pill but it's often the case. Can always go back up if you don't like it. Gotta give it a week or so to stabilize though to actually feel the difference because of the life.

Anywayts, other than the obvious dosage method many people snort them to go further and sometimes give a little energy buzz. Quite a few other shoot them, but there's been many reports of people "losing limbs" such which hasn't seemed to sto that many people from shooting them....never know what the truth is anymore. However, almost all reports say shooting does just about nothing....maybe a teeny tiny buzz for a couple people, but not worth the risk.

Do what you need to, but don't underestimate the power of bupe. Its super strong in tiny amounts and has a half-life that beats 'done. So when people go to kick, that 1mg may feel like 100mgs of something else & last for what feels like 100 times as long

[mikells43]

snorting suboxone has had some people report that they get incredable sinus infections, subutex on the other hand is diff and much better if u are going to snort it , but i wouldnt worry about ur dose now, if ur happy where ur at so be it, wait till after xmas, the holiday times equal stress so give urself a few days, and if ur not struggling to get subs and have a supply and a script for 24, i wouldnt worry about it, it took me 12 months to drop down to where im at now, also also i can't take less than 8mg, i feel like shit on it all day so thats why i am on 12-16, im still a sick fucker, im working on that part tho, it takes time like everything else and does not get better without some pain lol. i did notice subutex helped me drop dosage too, i can't take suboxone, i get scripted subutex. but take ur time and work on ur dose after all the holiday craps done.

[kevin]

If I plan to be on it for the remainder of my life I see no point in tapering down, but like I said I've kicked it twice before with almost no problems. Long and slow tapers are the key. I don't jump off from anything more than about .25mg.

[tptptp]

If I plan to be on it for the remainder of my life I see no point in tapering down, but like I said I've kicked it twice before with almost no problems. Long and slow tapers are the key. I don't jump off from anything more than about .25mg.

Possibly, but most people actually feel BETTER on a lower dose, that's what I'm getting at. Whatever floats your boat.

As far as ROA's...if staying clean is the #1 goal at all costs stick with sublingual. If you want a little buzz you could snort some (only do half as much) but thats so much damn powder, so...

The real buzz from snorting bupe probably wont apply much to you anyways as it seems it comes from being on fairly low doses. It's like your in mild WD's but can't notice it and bumping a little bit gives a buzz. It needs to be experimented with.

Splitting throughout the day, yeah.....usually it gives a little more mental satisfaction if nothing else, especially at high metabolism or low doses.

However, taking multiple times a day isn't psychologically healthy if you're trying to get back to a normal state of mind. Also at 24mg/day there's really no reason you should have to space it out like that. Above all else experiment some if you're curious and in the end do whatever works for you. Nothing else reallly matters.

[chopstix]

Also, shooting 'tex and eating benzos and drinking seems like asking for trouble. But hey, I'm the dummy on 24mg of subs so I guess I shouldn't talk.


Through years of research and thousands of dollars I've learned that it's actually quite a bit safer than shooting speedballs, eating benzos and drinking so I'm gonna run with it...

[kevin]

Also at 24mg/day there's really no reason you should have to space it out like that.

I'm pretty sure I could dose once a day, the real hassle is letting that bitch dissolve, 8mg takes me like 30 minutes to take, I can only imagine what 24 would be like, but I guess I could just take one after the other after the other or something. Yea, it is something I'm gonna play around with.

[mikells43]

they say dont eat anything 30 mins before u take one, melt an altoid at the same time or before to open ur mouth pores up and speed up disloving, rinse with hot water right before u put the pill in. those are some naabt tips i learned lol.

[collegekid]

When you are taking so much buprenorphine, any ROA will yield similar results.

I was inducted at 24mg/day, but am now down to 2mg/day. At this low dose, I find insufflating to be superior to sublingual administration. I will dose 1mg in the morning and 1mg in the evening. The morning dose goes fantastic with my coffee/energy drink. The evening dose helps me relax after a long day.

Im not sure if I even have a recommendation for how/when to take 24mg/day. That is an enormous dose.

[chopstix]

When you are taking so much buprenorphine, any ROA will yield similar results.

I was inducted at 24mg/day, but am now down to 2mg/day. At this low dose, I find insufflating to be superior to sublingual administration. I will dose 1mg in the morning and 1mg in the evening. The morning dose goes fantastic with my coffee/energy drink. The evening dose helps me relax after a long day.

Im not sure if I even have a recommendation for how/when to take 24mg/day. That is an enormous dose.

I agree, I don't think there is a habit on the planet that physically requires anything more than 4-8mg/day. The first time I was on subs, I went from 2 grams/day of IV black to 4mg suboxone in three days (never went over 8mg) and stretched 6 pills out 20 days. I use about 8mg/day now but only because of psychological compulsion (IV use, only 4mg so far today though and I think I'm good), although I know for a fact I can stay well on 4mg a day insufflated..

It's a shame that the Doctors are so naive about this stuff, I really think that we're going to see a lot of people over the next few years with big problems getting off bup. I'm planning my taper now and figuring on at least a week (maybe every other day) at .1mg..

[mikells43]

its not about the habit at all i think. its about how bad ur addictive mind//thinking/personality is. sure theres even people out there that are on bupe that used no other drug than tramadol and they have to take the same dose as someone that used herion or whatever harder drug u wanna think about. the point is that the useage amount, tolerence, and whatever u can toss into the "junkie macho" grading system u want to just does not make a shit bit of diff when it comes to treatment with bupe. someone that was doing 20 bags of H a day could be fine on 4mg a day. someone taking 40 ultrams a day might need 24mg a day in 8mg intervals 3 times. its all about how bad ur addictive thinking and personlity is.

I was using ultrams, percs, and whatever i could get at teh end of my using. i never did herion not even snorted it. i was taking something just about every hour id say, so when i stopped doing that, i had a pretty bad habit of taking something to make me feel better. so that is going to be a HUGE factor in my recovery, what should i do to cope with that behavior of AHH i need something in 10 mins feeling. u al kno what i mean, and that basically comes down to it with bupe. when u are good and stable the goal is to get down to that once a day dosing, and thats a bitch to do, cause we are addicts, taking something once a day is unheard of, even if they made a 300mg oc and we didn't take the coating off , we would still want something in about 6 hours cause our mind is telling us that those fucking w/ds are coming and if we dont get something soon we are going to start to sweat,, and we make those thoughts increase until the point that bang we just hafta take it or our mind is goign to race. u have to train ur mind into the once a day dosing. i knew a dude taking 24mg once in the am. he would feel like shit he says about 12 hours later so he would take more. and if we look at the half life graphs theres no way on gods green earth that he didnt' have a good enough amount of bupe in his sys to get him by anouther 12 hours, but its just that thinking flaw we have.

dont beat urself up over this man, it takes work. when i first started i would take beteween 24 and 32mg of suboxone daily and still wanted more. the longer u are clean the better u can master the thinking end of it and train urself into taking less. some people can do it right away and some can't. i couldnt cause i was allways popping something so that hurt me in the beginning real bad. i had a real bad addiction to taking something to make me feel better, tho i didn't need it, i still had to have it u kno what i mean.... have a good xmas

[kevin]

I agree, I don't think there is a habit on the planet that physically requires anything more than 4-8mg/day. The first time I was on subs, I went from 2 grams/day of IV black to 4mg suboxone in three days (never went over 8mg) and stretched 6 pills out 20 days. I use about 8mg/day now but only because of psychological compulsion (IV use, only 4mg so far today though and I think I'm good), although I know for a fact I can stay well on 4mg a day insufflated..

It's a shame that the Doctors are so naive about this stuff, I really think that we're going to see a lot of people over the next few years with big problems getting off bup. I'm planning my taper now and figuring on at least a week (maybe every other day) at .1mg..


As long as your taper is very slow and very long (.1mg is ever farther down than I've jumped off at) you'll be fine. I've never had any problems getting off bupe, maybe I'm different. The worst thing I had when I tapered down from 12mg to .25mg was the shits, and that was gone in about a week. But really, my taper was like six months long, and I ended up doing like .25mg every other day, then every two days (for about a month total) before I quit completely.


i had a real bad addiction to taking something to make me feel better, tho i didn't need it, i still had to have it u kno what i mean.... have a good xmas


I agree mike, I'm pretty sure I could get addicted to tylenol if I tried hard enough.

[chopstix]

its not about the habit at all i think. its about how bad ur addictive mind//thinking/personality is. sure theres even people out there that are on bupe that used no other drug than tramadol and they have to take the same dose as someone that used herion or whatever harder drug u wanna think about. the point is that the useage amount, tolerence, and whatever u can toss into the "junkie macho" grading system u want to just does not make a shit bit of diff when it comes to treatment with bupe. someone that was doing 20 bags of H a day could be fine on 4mg a day. someone taking 40 ultrams a day might need 24mg a day in 8mg intervals 3 times. its all about how bad ur addictive thinking and personlity is.

You're mis-interpreting my posts, I'm not talking about psychological cravings, I'm talking about physical withdrawal symptoms. You are right that it may take a high dose of to kill cravings for someone with a Tramadol habit; my point was that whether it's ultram or fent, I don't believe there is a habit out there that can't be physically stabilized with </=4-8mg within a few days of induction - don't forget that buprenorphine is considered to be 100-150x stronger than morphine.

I believe that you'll see smaller and smaller maintenance doses over the next few years. My current doctor won't prescribe me more than like 12mg a day and I know I don't need it. They're just learning about this stuff and most of their education (after the little class they take that is probably put out by RB and designed to sell the drug) comes from patient/peer experience/review and academic studies, which is is still really only in it's beginning stages..

Bup is really potent shit and something that a lot of junkies (bup users included) forget is just because they use X amount of X a day, doesn't mean that's what they need to stay well. When I say I was using 2g of black a day, I could have got by on .5g, I just wouldn't have been happy about it initially, but would have adjusted within a few days with minimal discomfort.

[mikells43]

You're mis-interpreting my posts, I'm not talking about psychological cravings, I'm talking about physical withdrawal symptoms. You are right that it may take a high dose of to kill cravings for someone with a Tramadol habit; my point was that whether it's ultram or fent, I don't believe there is a habit out there that can't be physically stabilized with </=4-8mg within a few days of induction - don't forget that buprenorphine is considered to be 100-150x stronger than morphine.

I believe that you'll see smaller and smaller maintenance doses over the next few years. My current doctor won't prescribe me more than like 12mg a day and I know I don't need it. They're just learning about this stuff and most of their education (after the little class they take that is probably put out by RB and designed to sell the drug) comes from patient/peer experience/review and academic studies, which is is still really only in it's beginning stages..

Bup is really potent shit and something that a lot of junkies (bup users included) forget is just because they use X amount of X a day, doesn't mean that's what they need to stay well. When I say I was using 2g of black a day, I could have got by on .5g, I just wouldn't have been happy about it initially, but would have adjusted within a few days with minimal discomfort.


sorry i wasn't thinking right lol. and yea less and less as u continue on it. whats weird about bupe is the fact u need less, when if it were a normal opiate u would need more . is that right? but of course normal opiates we use to get high, and bupe we use to keep well, imagine if we took like oxy just to stay well, could we control it or could we not? im talking only to stay well, with no high or fuzz. could it be done? and could u stay on the same does lets say 150mg of oxy a day for a year? could it be done? its weird how our brain plays tricks on us, i really want to think that i could do that but i kno im just bullshitting myself , id fucking have the whole bottle gone lol. but some people could do it. its just weird to think about. u only use it to stay well not to get high, tho u could get high if u wanted too, i gues thats why there is no high from bupe.... q

[King's Crossing]

Kevin, I read some of your posts and I'm nearly certain you're my good friend Kevin (he told me the exact same story about his old dr). I havn't heard from you in a few weeks, but give me a call when you see this post. I figured i'd catch you here eventually. :D

[kevin]

HAHA, WORD J-RIZZA.

[King's Crossing]

Yeah I couldn't wait for you to see this post & call me (I gave up & called you), so it's not quite the surprise I was planning when I wrote that first post. Anyhow it is nice to see someone I know. You told me about this forum two summers ago when you were trying to get off the mmt, I've been lurking here ever since. Hit me up sometime and we'll go down to the pub & have a beer.