PDA

View Full Version : Buprenorphine recreationally is very underrated!



Nemesis1
12-05-2007, 09:04 AM
SWIM and many of my chipper and occasional user friends get really, really high on buprenorphine... SWIM thinks that the bupe high is just a tad less euphoric than that of morphine/H... It lacks a little (but just a little) in that ecstatic feeling of warmness and happiness that you get morphine/H is peaking, but then again, that peak isn't very long while you can still be high on bupe 24 hours after taking your dose...

And bupe also has other pros that morphine and its closest relatives lack... While SWIM thinks morphine gives you a constant fuzz that's equally strong when you're nodding as when you're up doing things, the bupe high is more flexible... It gets all dreamy and noddy when you lie or sit comfortable (especially if you also pop a benso) while you stay sharp with lots of energy and no hangy eyelids while you're on your feet...

SWIM knows that the euphoria from bupe ceases to exist when you're hooked - but to those people not hooked already SWIM would highly recommend bupe, many addicts don't value the drug very high either, while a person without tolerance will get eight doses from an 8mg Subutex tab!

So kids, take advice, you might end up hooked to opioids sooner or later, so if you wanna have a cheap and euphoric honeymoon before the desperate hunt for your next fix start, choose buprenorphine, when you later come back to it, it'll probably be in one of those substitution programmes, and those won't get you high! ;)

limitless_euphoria
12-05-2007, 10:26 AM
SWIM and many of my chipper and occasional user friends get really, really high on buprenorphine... SWIM thinks that the bupe high is just a tad less euphoric than that of morphine/H... It lacks a little (but just a little) in that ecstatic feeling of warmness and happiness that you get morphine/H is peaking, but then again, that peak isn't very long while you can still be high on bupe 24 hours after taking your dose...
And bupe also has other pros that morphine and its closest relatives lack... While SWIM thinks morphine gives you a constant fuzz that's equally strong when you're nodding as when you're up doing things, the bupe high is more flexible... It gets all dreamy and noddy when you lie or sit comfortable (especially if you also pop a benso) while you stay sharp with lots of energy and no hangy eyelids while you're on your feet...
SWIM knows that the euphoria from bupe ceases to exist when you're hooked - but to those people not hooked already SWIM would highly recommend bupe, many addicts don't value the drug very high either, while a person without tolerance will get eight doses from an 8mg Subutex tab!
So kids, take advice, you might end up hooked to opioids sooner or later, so if you wanna have a cheap and euphoric honeymoon before the desperate hunt for your next fix start, choose buprenorphine, when you later come back to it, it'll probably be in one of those substitution programmes, and those won't get you high! ;)

Well, just a word of caution: I KNOW someone who has experimented with all kinds of opiates including H, who TRIED a suboxone (and hadn't had any other opiates for days prior to) and HE FELT LIKE COMPLETE SHIT FOR TWO DAYS STRAIGHT. He couldn't see straight, he was puking and gagging, he felt uncomfortable sitting/standing/laying in bed as well as a bunch of other problems. It was a total disaster and he never wants to see, hear or talk about bupe ever again.

I just want people to know that some people might potentially have that sort of reaction. I'm not getting preachy, I just want the info. out there so people are aware.

upstate_007
12-05-2007, 10:52 AM
Well, just a word of caution: I KNOW someone who has experimented with all kinds of opiates including H, who TRIED a suboxone (and hadn't had any other opiates for days prior to) and HE FELT LIKE COMPLETE SHIT FOR TWO DAYS STRAIGHT. He couldn't see straight, he was puking and gagging, he felt uncomfortable sitting/standing/laying in bed as well as a bunch of other problems. It was a total disaster and he never wants to see, hear or talk about bupe ever again.

I just want people to know that some people might potentially have that sort of reaction. I'm not getting preachy, I just want the info. out there so people are aware.

I know a few people that have had the same result.

motts
12-05-2007, 11:21 AM
Suboxone...........also know as Buprenorphine.

What a drug, a semi-syntheic opiate derived from thebaine. It was something that I was placed on this summer because I was using a lot of Heroin. I am in college, but at the time was planning for it. I was placed on 8mg suboxone and only being on the drug for two months, I can attest that, 8mg is really too high of a dose. I do not understand how people go on 16,24,32mg, I could not urinate/poop. for the love of God, it really acts similar in the full antagonist opiate side effects realm.

Anyways, one of the really positive aspects of the drug is, FOR ME at least, I had no cravings for opiates at all, which makes sense because I was ON an opiate, I asked numerous doctors if I could get dropped to (2mg) but they would not do it because the drop would too quick, which is bullshit because when I ween'd myself off the drug dropping dosages was so simple, the last .5mg > nothing was the hardest.

But as far as withdrawals, YES!!!!, when you are 48-72 hours into them, and you pop around 2-4mg suboxone it really helps. I do believe that just taking 4-8mg suboxone without any tolerance will produce some nice effects but nothing similar to a nice shot of heroin, thus the debate of partial vs full antagonist.

Consumed.
12-05-2007, 11:24 AM
Bup is good recreationally for people who are unexperienced with opiates. Sure if you dont have a tolerance and you pop some pills here and there itll work. For anyone who's a hardcore opiate users it might has well be codeine. Please dont think personal experience works for all, it aint so. When I kick dope it takes over 24 mg of bup to stop physical withdrawals for me, and there's no "buzz" with it. It WOULDNT WORK RECREATIONALLY for me no matter what. If your used to taking the occasional percoset or morphine it might do something.

deathboy
12-05-2007, 11:25 AM
I became pretty sick on Buprenorphine when I first started it - even at a low dose (6mg).

Once I stablized, however, the sickness subsided and I actually felt some mild euphoria. I find taking small doses throughout the day maximizes effect. 2mg every three to four hours does the trick.

DB

EleusisII
12-05-2007, 12:32 PM
Well, just a word of caution: I KNOW someone who has experimented with all kinds of opiates including H, who TRIED a suboxone (and hadn't had any other opiates for days prior to) and HE FELT LIKE COMPLETE SHIT FOR TWO DAYS STRAIGHT.

Could it be because he still had other drugs in his system? Suboxone contains naloxone, ya know...

through_hate
12-05-2007, 01:31 PM
Well, just a word of caution: I KNOW someone who has experimented with all kinds of opiates including H, who TRIED a suboxone (and hadn't had any other opiates for days prior to) and HE FELT LIKE COMPLETE SHIT FOR TWO DAYS STRAIGHT. He couldn't see straight, he was puking and gagging, he felt uncomfortable sitting/standing/laying in bed as well as a bunch of other problems. It was a total disaster and he never wants to see, hear or talk about bupe ever again.

I just want people to know that some people might potentially have that sort of reaction. I'm not getting preachy, I just want the info. out there so people are aware.
You cannont be on any opiates when taking bupes. The opiate blocker in them will throw you in to full blown, day-2 withdrawls. It sucks. I remember trying to kick and took a sub way too soon after using last. I was sick....the exact thing i was trying to avoid.

Nemesis1
12-05-2007, 02:23 PM
Well, just a word of caution: I KNOW someone who has experimented with all kinds of opiates including H, who TRIED a suboxone (and hadn't had any other opiates for days prior to) and HE FELT LIKE COMPLETE SHIT FOR TWO DAYS STRAIGHT. He couldn't see straight, he was puking and gagging, he felt uncomfortable sitting/standing/laying in bed as well as a bunch of other problems. It was a total disaster and he never wants to see, hear or talk about bupe ever again.
I just want people to know that some people might potentially have that sort of reaction. I'm not getting preachy, I just want the info. out there so people are aware.Sounds like he took a too big dose, 0,5-1mg is the dose most beginners take... SWIM has never seen anyone have those problems on that dose, although some people get that "too high puking"... But many people get that from H too, if they don't have a habit...
Bup is good recreationally for people who are unexperienced with opiates. Sure if you dont have a tolerance and you pop some pills here and there itll work. For anyone who's a hardcore opiate users it might has well be codeine. Please dont think personal experience works for all, it aint so. When I kick dope it takes over 24 mg of bup to stop physical withdrawals for me, and there's no "buzz" with it. It WOULDNT WORK RECREATIONALLY for me no matter what. If your used to taking the occasional percoset or morphine it might do something.Well, you don't have to be unexperienced to get high from bupe, you just mustn't have a habit/tolerance... ;)

CIIORNOTHING
12-05-2007, 03:24 PM
I have a fairly high tolerance. I bang about 100-150mg day of MS and take about 60mg day of oxy with some hydromorph mixed in here and there when I can get it.

About a month or so ago I was totally dry, headed into withdrawls and life sucked. I got my hands on two vials of bupe totalling .6mg. I got high as hell, felt like a million bucks, and it kept the WDs off me for almost three days. No doubt in my mind bupe can be fun if used correctly, which is to say, used after all other opies have cleared.

limitless_euphoria
12-05-2007, 06:53 PM
Could it be because he still had other drugs in his system? Suboxone contains naloxone, ya know...

My boy told it had been at least a week since he'd touched opies and just like 2 tramadol. That was it. He was relatively opiate-naive.

Nemesis1
12-05-2007, 07:11 PM
My boy told it had been at least a week since he'd touched opies and just like 2 tramadol. That was it. He was relatively opiate-naive.How much bupe did he take, then??

I have a really great guide to using buprenorphine recreationally that got very popular on another forum, sadly it's in Swedish... I don't know when I would have time to translate it to English, though... Is there any Swedish speakers on this forum who could help me??

Duckfeet
12-05-2007, 08:17 PM
I've always gotten subutex--not suboxone--once for detox off of methadone, and twice for maintenance...and to me there *is* no recreational high to it...no where *near* morphine, to me, and not that big of a morphine fan anyway, not the crap u see now, usually...but subs, from fixing them, to doing the correctly, all subutex does, for me, is get rid of the worst withdrawal symptoms...and I always do them in the morning, as in the evening, I would "feel" them, and to me, the feeling was just like talwin or ultram, or any other off-the-wall speedy drug...and, of course, people often don't realize they are *seriously* strungout on subs, until they get down *real* low, and jump, and on day three, just about everybody, including me, finds out, whoops, I guess there was a reason they make u so constipated....

But if u've got three lines: heroin, methadone, and buprenorphene...there is no doubt in my mind--and I"m no fan of methadone--which line would be the short line...

Count me as one of the people who thinks the dangers of subs are underrated: more addictive, strange longterm effects at higher doses, constipation, hard to get off of ... and the pluses are overrated....the little high is strange, banjo-like (twangy) and speedy...

mikells43
12-05-2007, 08:36 PM
man i remember those days getting high on such a little amount of shit. for me bupe does not get me high. i beleive that the design of it makes so that us that are addicted or dependent upon opiates are not able to get high due to its celing, and as far as u thinking it has a limit yes thats the celing affect. bupe has a high binding affinity to the opiate/opioid receptors. but as far as the side effects, no drug "does not have any bad effects", and as far as im concerned, the benifits outweight the bad sides. im fucking normal today, i dont crave opiates, i am HAPPY IN MY OWN SKIN. and that dude who got sick prob had something else in him and the bupe bounced it off of his receptors causing instant precp w/d. also bupe is very powerful shit when compaired to well morphine. 1mg of PO bupe is equal to 150mg of po morph yea thats not alot of bupe and for some folks who use alot thats not alot of morph.


in closing bupe has saved my life, along with doing other things to fix my actions, behaviors, personality, and thinking. u can't just take a pill and expcet to be well. sure theres going to be side effects but they can be lessened and the end result is worth more than the side effect for me. if all opiates had bad side effects like emmense heartburn to the point that you can't swallow and nothing will work on them, i think that i would still take them cause thats just how the beast makes me think. well made me think.

sunburny
12-05-2007, 10:56 PM
Ok well, this I know about.

Suboxone - has naltrexone (sp?) in it, so it ain't fun ... It's like being an active alcoholic and trying to bang antabuse for fun... it wouldn't be.

subutex - just buprenorphine. 8 mg under your tongue still staves off w/d for a day for small habits.

But that's under your tounge. It must be pretty strong stuff, since 8 mg's will stop w/d for somebody doing 80-160mg of Oxycodone upnose a day, or so SWIM noticed.

hm... what do you think our original poster is talking about... 8 doses in one subutex? how do you think he's traversing the blood-brain deliverance? Banging bupe. It's a huge european fad, I'm amazed it's taking U.S. so long to get in on it.

In Sofla, I was doing bup .6 glass vials intramuscularly for a year. It ended when I found a vein. Glass vials strewn all over the floor, me nodded out in the kitchen. Probably if I had done it at first it wouldn't have done shit, but google news on subutex and read what the rest of the world seems to already know, buprenorphine is serious shit, and is getting hundreds of thousands of people on Earth high as we speak. I mean, as I write, as you read.

Right?

sunburny
12-05-2007, 11:00 PM
but buprenorphine helped me kick. I wouldn't have a computer to post on if not for b

Consumed.
12-05-2007, 11:21 PM
i dont get how people in europe are banging subs? or are they only banging the subutex not suboxen?

jonny-5
12-05-2007, 11:24 PM
all my friends get obliterated off a milligram of bupe. as a matter of fact, the other day 2mg made my friend puke. for me the "buzz" is pretty non-existant, nowhere NEAR heroin or morphine, but my friends swear its almost as good as well. ahh to be opiate naive....

mikells43
12-05-2007, 11:27 PM
kinda right. it is getting people high, but those people are opiate intollerent folks. i take 16mg a day. people on here have shot that much, they dont get high. those people that are getting high are non addicted people who dont have tollerences. once u have a tollerence or are dependent on it theres no hope. and i gave my one friend a 2mg back in 03 when i was on subutex the first time. it made him puke too. i said dude u kno ur high when u puke. puking for an opiate addict is like passing out for a drunk. or something like that. people are banging both, the narcan is ineffective when u have bupe on ur opiate receptors allready cause of its high binding affinity (aka sperm in the shower, guys know how hard sperm is to get off ur leg in the shower lol). thats what bupes like on the opiate receptors, and that small amount of naloxone will not push it off of the receptors. in fact if u od on bupe(dont see how that happens) it takes high infusions of narcan to make the shit budge off of ur receptors.

Duckfeet
12-05-2007, 11:31 PM
Even when I felt percs, I never felt a fucking thing banging subutex...and I did, like eight mg, and yeah, it got me "well" but hell, that's not a buzz....shit's no good...read what most people say, that u trust, when they fix subs...only reason we do it is because we are needle freaks...*not* because we think "ooohh subs!!!" I get about as excited when I see three or four vicodin...only reason to have subs around is to stave off withdrawals...same spot in med cabinet as mdone pills...

Consumed.
12-05-2007, 11:39 PM
so you guys are saying people are banging suboxen without going into prec. withdrawals?

Duck, let me tell ya I dont feel shit from subs either. Coming of my 2 bun a day dope habit a week ago it took me 32 MILLIGRAMS to get right. And it had been over 24 hours. No long acting opies in my system. So i dont have too much faith in em. And it took 32 mgs to get rid of physical withdrawals not mental ones. 32 mg before hot cold sweats where gone and i could put anything in my stomach. I been on the H again for like 5 days now and am going to start the subs again tomorrow. did my last shot at like 6. i take 2mgs at a time until i feel all right. I dont even get a reaction until 16 mgs and thats with about a bun a day. anymore than that and i need more sub

sunburny
12-05-2007, 11:43 PM
Well I guess I'm gonna cancel my hardened junkie IV bupe disco party. :o

I mean, Swim's got a ton of subutex coming, but it's not for pleasure, just relieve the pressure... that sperm thing is gross, I don't want buprespermone all up in my head, yo.

I mean, I'm just saying that non junkies are banging it for fun, and I thought that's what nemisis was recomending. Not great advice for me, personally, but for all those kids out there, have fun!

In fact, I'd been clean for 6 months and 12mg temgesic just put the happy knot in my stomach. Anyone else have that happy knot? A little twist inside that makes you feel happy and safe? Papers? are they real? Sorry, still wondering about papers.

Duckfeet
12-05-2007, 11:54 PM
What's funny, is I can't even keep fucking *vicodin* around, and my subs are safe...I don't even feel like doing'em when I'm sick, as long as I know something's coming in a day or two...and it usually is...but I don't like to knock subs too much...like, u know, I think someone who doesn't have a huge heroin habit, or lots of years of fucking up, or whatever, and is highly motivated, will do well on them, like Mikell is doing...but otherwise, to me, they're useless...I fixed'em, cuz I always had subutex, but they never did a damn thing....the people I heard who were all strung out on them in indonesia or wherever the fuck it was, usually seemed to mix'em w/something, and I figured it was one of them synergistic things or something like that....



so you guys are saying people are banging suboxen without going into prec. withdrawals?

Duck, let me tell ya I dont feel shit from subs either. Coming of my 2 bun a day dope habit a week ago it took me 32 MILLIGRAMS to get right. And it had been over 24 hours. No long acting opies in my system. So i dont have too much faith in em. And it took 32 mgs to get rid of physical withdrawals not mental ones. 32 mg before hot cold sweats where gone and i could put anything in my stomach. I been on the H again for like 5 days now and am going to start the subs again tomorrow. did my last shot at like 6. i take 2mgs at a time until i feel all right. I dont even get a reaction until 16 mgs and thats with about a bun a day. anymore than that and i need more sub

Nemesis1
12-06-2007, 12:26 AM
i dont get how people in europe are banging subs? or are they only banging the subutex not suboxen?In areas where it's hard to come by good/cheap heroin (or oxy, morphine, whatever) people usually run into Subutex before they get a monkey on their backs, and therefore buprenorphine becomes the drug that introduces them to heavy opioid use... In the USA, I think few people run buprenorphine before they've developed tolerance to heroin or oxycodone... That's why lots of people use bupe recreationally in Europe...

The naloxone in Suboxone only spoils the fun when you shoot up large amounts, it seems...

all my friends get obliterated off a milligram of bupe. as a matter of fact, the other day 2mg made my friend puke. for me the "buzz" is pretty non-existant, nowhere NEAR heroin or morphine, but my friends swear its almost as good as well. ahh to be opiate naive....Yeah, it's strange that buprenorphine is so powerful for people who never developed tolerance... I mean, every opoiod loses much of its euphoria when you're addicted, but none more so than buprenorphine, it seems... It degrades from "almost like heroin/morphine" to "more like tramadol"...

Pandora
12-06-2007, 12:31 AM
I remember the days I could take an 8 mg suboxone and get SO high. It was sweet. Never quite as good as an OC or a bag of H, but the first couple time I took it back when I was just starting opiates, I got super fucked up. Bupe does have a recreational value, but only for the opiate naive.

Now all bupe does is give me a dull headache and make me feel like I'm going to vomit for 12 hours straight. I hate that shit. I think that's the naloxone, though. I'd love to get my hands on some subutex when I quit in January (as is the plan). Not for fun, just to ease the WDs a bit.

I don't mean to hijack, but is it harder to get Subutex versus Suboxone in the states? I could tell them Suboxone makes me feel ill, but I've never been prescribed it, so would that look bad? Thanks for any input.

Duckfeet
12-06-2007, 12:48 AM
I wish I *did* like subs: I had no problem finding a good, cheap ($50, once a month), doc, on the NAABT.org website, and he had not problem at all prescribing subutex...I'd head all the stories, but he didn't give a shit...why would he care? But they just don't do it for me...worse than methadone for side effects, and more craving for me, so it was ridiculous...I mean, I was always stopping doing them, for a day or two, when I'd get hold of some good dope, then starting up again...

But anyway, to me, even buying'em at a drugstore at about 8-10 apiece for 8mg pills, it was still a lot cheaper than methadone...and I saved enough if I ever got down to 30mg mdone, to jump over, if I needed to, and last a bit...

But in my limited experience, docs don't care that much, will give out subutex, u tell'em u are allergive to naloxone, or have tried suboxone, and it gives you headaches, and then they're *supposed* to give you subutex....

best wishes...



I remember the days I could take an 8 mg suboxone and get SO high. It was sweet. Never quite as good as an OC or a bag of H, but the first couple time I took it back when I was just starting opiates, I got super fucked up. Bupe does have a recreational value, but only for the opiate naive.

Now all bupe does is give me a dull headache and make me feel like I'm going to vomit for 12 hours straight. I hate that shit. I think that's the naloxone, though. I'd love to get my hands on some subutex when I quit in January (as is the plan). Not for fun, just to ease the WDs a bit.

I don't mean to hijack, but is it harder to get Subutex versus Suboxone in the states? I could tell them Suboxone makes me feel ill, but I've never been prescribed it, so would that look bad? Thanks for any input.

Pandora
12-06-2007, 01:37 AM
I wish I *did* like subs: I had no problem finding a good, cheap ($50, once a month), doc, on the NAABT.org website, and he had not problem at all prescribing subutex...I'd head all the stories, but he didn't give a shit...why would he care? But they just don't do it for me...worse than methadone for side effects, and more craving for me, so it was ridiculous...I mean, I was always stopping doing them, for a day or two, when I'd get hold of some good dope, then starting up again...

But anyway, to me, even buying'em at a drugstore at about 8-10 apiece for 8mg pills, it was still a lot cheaper than methadone...and I saved enough if I ever got down to 30mg mdone, to jump over, if I needed to, and last a bit...

But in my limited experience, docs don't care that much, will give out subutex, u tell'em u are allergive to naloxone, or have tried suboxone, and it gives you headaches, and then they're *supposed* to give you subutex....

best wishes...

Thanks for the info Duckfeet. You are always so nice and informative. I really appreciate it! :)

SCHTIC
12-06-2007, 02:33 AM
Nemesis is so right on that one i did try bupe first on a 9 month period of cleanlyness and for a clean person 4mg will get you just as high as a 40mg oc will a clean person hell maby if i had come across bupe years ago i wouldnt be sucking on one every morning wondering if ill die like elvis with the next poop whenever it may come (the end is near but my poop usually isn't and thats just not worth not getting high anymore .

Nemesis1
12-06-2007, 04:09 AM
i gave my one friend a 2mg back in 03 when i was on subutex the first time. it made him puke too. i said dude u kno ur high when u puke. puking for an opiate addict is like passing out for a drunk.SWIM is like a weekend drunkard then... He started taking bupe in 2005, but only once a week... And still he must be carful after 1mg, if have a meal and then go for a cigarette he might puke... But he knows when that puking feeling comes, when he starts salivating he quickly bogarts his cigarette or give it to someone else and go to the bathroom... There he spits out all the saliva that has amassed in his mouth and then drinks some water and usually he gets to keep his lunch in his stomach... :cool:

You can get high hundreds of times and still have the same tolerance as you had before you tried opioids if you just spread out those hundred times a bit... =)

Duckfeet
12-06-2007, 10:48 AM
Yeah, everybody believes that...but I've yet to meet a real junky, who after a period of time, sooner usually, rather than later, who doesn't do his "morning fix" and then sometime, oh, around lunch, say, fuck all this "chipping" bullshit, I"m gonna get fucked up *now...* Never met a longterm chipper....plenty of shortermers...hell, we all chip at times...eventually, tho, everybody Iv'e ever met, says fuck it all, I've got dope, tomorrow may not come...end of chipping....

Best wishes tho, nothing human is out of reach...just my experience...





<snip>


You can get high hundreds of times and still have the same tolerance as you had before you tried opioids if you just spread out those hundred times a bit... =)

Inspektahdek
12-06-2007, 01:43 PM
i dont get how people in europe are banging subs? or are they only banging the subutex not suboxen?



yea theyre banging just bupe, not nalaxone, it's particularly bad in France of all EU countries, try googling bupe and france or even paris and there are all sorts of stuff about it. It's kind of a new craze over there it's not too prevalent in Germany, the banging of sub I mean.

Inspektahdek
12-06-2007, 01:44 PM
here ya go, here's one of them-

"Buprenorphine is a highly effective heroin-addiction treatment which was recently approved for use in the United States. It is the first opioid that can be prescribed by physicians in the United States since the passage of the Harrison Narcotic Act in 1914. French physicians have more than five years experience treating patients with this medication. The widespread use of buprenorphine in France has led to a dramatic nation-wide reduction in heroin overdose deaths and in other harms associated with addiction.
The forum's speakers—three French physicians who conduct research and oversee clinical services—reported on their experiences with this treatment. A discussion following the presentation highlighted differences between U.S. and French drug policies and provided an update on buprenorphine in Baltimore."




--http://www.soros.org/initiatives/baltimore/events/buprenorphone_20031119


ALSO-

According to the United Nations International Narcotics Control Board (UN/INCB), worldwide usage and availability of buprenorphine has increased substantially in recent years. Buprenorphine production has grown from 35 kg in 1980 to 460 kg in 1998. In France, imports increased from 5 kg in 1994 to 159 kg in 1998. The increased availability of buprenorphine in France coincides with the marketing of high-dose sublingual tablets and has been accompanied by increased diversion and abuse and over 100 buprenorphine-related deaths.

mikells43
12-06-2007, 04:03 PM
i took suboxone for my first 4 months of being clean. suboxone gave me all kinds of symptoms like u hear on here. the headahces, the shitty feelings, and all of the above. i was beteween docs so i went to a doc that i had been going to for other durgs in my past that i had seen on the doc locator, she gave me suboxone for 2 more months, then i said, it makes me sick. a friend of mine was gettin symptoms like mine so he had an appt before mine, he got subutex. so i went in and said i gget so sick with this stuff i want off of it. she said no ill give u subutex(when i first went to her she hated me totally cause i used to cop off of her, then i grew on her as the minupulating addict i still was lol) but now we have an awsome repore and im on subutex, its changed my preception on life compaired to suboxone, i wanted off that shit now. alot ofp eople have these symptoms, i think the fda should take suboxone off the market and leave subutex. the nax is a waste cause it dont work anyways if u have bupe on ur receptors allready. but yea i deff condone it. it has worked awsome for me and chagned my life.

vanilla_mlkshake2007
12-06-2007, 04:23 PM
Bup is good recreationally for people who are unexperienced with opiates. Sure if you dont have a tolerance and you pop some pills here and there itll work. For anyone who's a hardcore opiate users it might has well be codeine. Please dont think personal experience works for all, it aint so. When I kick dope it takes over 24 mg of bup to stop physical withdrawals for me, and there's no "buzz" with it. It WOULDNT WORK RECREATIONALLY for me no matter what. If your used to taking the occasional percoset or morphine it might do something.








I totally agree with ya!!!!because of my high tolerence and experiments w/ Bupe ,There is no amount that would compare to my morphine or even give me a lil buzz as far as that goes but then it may not be like that for others!!!

Hammilton
12-06-2007, 06:00 PM
Ok well, this I know about.

Suboxone - has naltrexone (sp?) in it, so it ain't fun ... It's like being an active alcoholic and trying to bang antabuse for fun... it wouldn't be.

subutex - just buprenorphine. 8 mg under your tongue still staves off w/d for a day for small habits.

But that's under your tounge. It must be pretty strong stuff, since 8 mg's will stop w/d for somebody doing 80-160mg of Oxycodone upnose a day, or so SWIM noticed.

hm... what do you think our original poster is talking about... 8 doses in one subutex? how do you think he's traversing the blood-brain deliverance? Banging bupe. It's a huge european fad, I'm amazed it's taking U.S. so long to get in on it.

In Sofla, I was doing bup .6 glass vials intramuscularly for a year. It ended when I found a vein. Glass vials strewn all over the floor, me nodded out in the kitchen. Probably if I had done it at first it wouldn't have done shit, but google news on subutex and read what the rest of the world seems to already know, buprenorphine is serious shit, and is getting hundreds of thousands of people on Earth high as we speak. I mean, as I write, as you read.

Right?

Actually Suboxone has Naloxone in it- if it had Naltrexone in it it'd precipitate withdrawal every fucking time you took it (assuming that naltrexone has a high enough binding affinity, I'd have to check binding values to make sure, but I doubt it).

Naloxone is only active by IV and IM (and probably very, very slightly active SL). Naltrexone is active by all routes.

And Suboxone *is* fun by injection. The antagonist doesn't have a strong enough binding affinity to cause withdrawal, or to block the enjoyable effects of the buprenorphine.

The continued prescription of suboxone bewilders me, considering how well we now know that Naloxone doesn't prevent anyone from getting high by injecting it.

I've considered banging my suboxones once or twice for the hell of it, but the fucking binders are what prevents me.

mikells43
12-06-2007, 08:46 PM
it is the actual bupe that causes precp w/d . the bupe has such a high binding affinity for the opiate receptors, that when taken it competes for the receptor. it kicks off and replaces existing opioids. and if a person has a significant amount of opiates on the receptor and they are expelled and replaced by the bupe. then the person feels the rapid loss of effect and then precp w/d. this only happens in people dependent or addicted to opiates.

thats precp w/d in a nutshell.

ZodiacKiller
12-06-2007, 09:19 PM
I currently use bupe for its intended purpose, to stave off WD, and to keep me off heroin (although I occasionally relapse, and then it take monstrous amounts of smack to break through the Bupe).

However, some time ago, I was completely clean for over six weeks, and when an uncontrollable urge came over me, I took an 8mg sub. Well, let me tell you, I got off on it SO hardcore, nodding and all, and the high lasted at least 12 hours.

So, I guess if you're clean, sub WILL work for you in regards to opiated bliss. But IMO, you've gotta be completely clean for a considerable amount of time.

So now, I'm clean off subs --jumped off 6 days ago, and I still l have mild WD, but I'm gonna tough it out. I'm also gonna fill all my sub scripts and stockpile the fuck out of 'em. They'll have a myriad of uses---be it getting high on occasionally, or if I jump back on the dope wagon, well, they'll be there if I need 'em...



ZK

HMMM...
12-06-2007, 09:41 PM
I get nothing from bupe. But I've only tried it after I've come to have a good tolerance to opies. Not that lone ago I did somethin stupid and actually i.v.d it.
I mean it does its job by subsiding the physical withdraws but mentally I'm still a wreck. Even when I've just takin the bupe and I later come up on some oc Ill bust the oc right away knowing the bupe will block it. Guess it's all in my head....

kil092286
12-06-2007, 10:53 PM
Count me as one of the people who thinks the dangers of subs are underrated: more addictive, strange longterm effects at higher doses, constipation, hard to get off of ... and the pluses are overrated....the little high is strange, banjo-like (twangy) and speedy...

I don't think you could have said it any better than that ... very "on the edge of deliverance" haha!

mikells43
12-06-2007, 10:59 PM
theres no high for me from bupe. i feel normal. i dont kno where the speedyness is coming from

Duckfeet
12-06-2007, 11:28 PM
You're just a good all around example of using it correctly, and it's working...but I know lots of people put off by the little high it gives, like I said, why they recommend taking it in the morning...avoid that weirdness...but I'm glad it working for you...I'm not sure if it's the naloxone, or just that u've been on it a while, and yer bod has gotten more used to it....



theres no high for me from bupe. i feel normal. i dont kno where the speedyness is coming from

collegekid
12-08-2007, 04:18 PM
While I cannot say that I have ever gotten high from buprenorphine, the effects of the drug are unmistakable. Just like many, I started bupe at 24mg/day. Now that I am down to 2mg/day, I can honestly say that I do enjoy the drug. I usually dose 1mg in the morning and another 1mg in the evening. The dose in the morning really gets my going, especially with a big cup of coffee... And in the evening, the dose helps me relax after work.

I do feel, however, that buprenorphine is almost universally overprescribed(dosage wise, not incidents of prescription), especially in the induction phase. IMO, this is done so that the addicts do NOT have the option of relapsing. Having to wait a full 72 hours is a huge deterrent from seeking out drugs.

I can come off of 160-240mg oxycodone/day and get back on the bupe at 4mg/day with no troubles. However, when I came off of 120mg oxycodone/day and decided to first start buprenorphine, I was taking 24mg/day. There were all sorts of side effects at doses this high. I found myself using the bathroom once every 4 days, if that. I would nod off at work at the most random times.

At lower doses, the drug becomes much more stimulating. IMO, the stimulating qualities of buprenorphine are what makes the drug so effective as a treatment for opioid dependence. Never in past 6-7 years have I felt like even getting out of bed when going through opiate w/ds. Even when all of the physical symptoms had subsided. With bupe it is a completely different story.

Granted, the drug does little for the cravings one experiences after stopping opiate use. But due to the motivation it providies, it really is in a class of its own.

sunburny
12-08-2007, 04:54 PM
Actually Suboxone has Naloxone in it- if it had Naltrexone in it it'd precipitate withdrawal every fucking time you took it (assuming that naltrexone has a high enough binding affinity, I'd have to check binding values to make sure, but I doubt it).

Naloxone is only active by IV and IM (and probably very, very slightly active SL). Naltrexone is active by all routes.

And Suboxone *is* fun by injection. The antagonist doesn't have a strong enough binding affinity to cause withdrawal, or to block the enjoyable effects of the buprenorphine.

The continued prescription of suboxone bewilders me, considering how well we now know that Naloxone doesn't prevent anyone from getting high by injecting it.

I've considered banging my suboxones once or twice for the hell of it, but the fucking binders are what prevents me.

DOH! No wonder why my doctor seemed so shocked that I didn't want suboxone versus subutex. If I worked in pharmaceutical marketing, I would keep the prefix "Na" far away from any opiate related medicine, just to clarify for dumbasses like myself.

Thanks for clarifying.

CIIORNOTHING
12-11-2007, 11:26 AM
I think where some confusion may come in is that you can get injectible vet grade pure bupe that is 10mg/ml in amps. Its called Equinox or something like that. Its for horses and they use it for bringing animals out of anesthesia and for long term pain mgmt. If that dont fuck you up nothing will....trust me. You just dont want to use it until all your other opies clear because it will displace them in the receptor sites and be a waste.

When I say I bang bupe this is what Im referring to. Not pills with any narcan or shit like that in it. Im just lucky I have a vet pharmacy cabinet at my fingertips. (or unlucky, we'll see how it turns out)

Nemesis1
12-11-2007, 11:56 AM
I think where some confusion may come in is that you can get injectible vet grade pure bupe that is 10mg/ml in amps. Its called Equinox or something like that. Its for horses and they use it for bringing animals out of anesthesia and for long term pain mgmt. If that dont fuck you up nothing will....trust me. You just dont want to use it until all your other opies clear because it will displace them in the receptor sites and be a waste.

When I say I bang bupe this is what Im referring to. Not pills with any narcan or shit like that in it. Im just lucky I have a vet pharmacy cabinet at my fingertips. (or unlucky, we'll see how it turns out)IV solutions of buprenorphine intended for humans are avalible too, under the brand Temgesic... :)

Inspektahdek
12-11-2007, 11:58 AM
I get no buzz, unless mixed with tramadol on occasion, and I also get a speediness, but keep in mind the speediness is usually the cause of a high dose of bupe I'd say 20+mg and up.

Has anyone had subutex and suboxone without negative effects from suboxone from nalaxone? If so, are they basically the same thing or is subutex way better? I know they're about the same because for the most part the naloxone is inactive for it's intended purpose. I've noticed with rectal use, you get major migraines because a tiny tiny bit of naloxone will be absorbed in the the rectal membranes.





IV solutions of buprenorphine intended for humans are avalible too, under the brand Temgesic... :)


Actually temgesic in the 0.2mg form is called temgesic and the IV solutions are called "Buprenex" and these are in less than mg forms as well. Bupe vials are extremely popular and becoming a hazard in western europe, particularly France. It's becoming an epidemic there.

Nemesis1
12-11-2007, 01:13 PM
Actually temgesic in the 0.2mg form is called temgesic and the IV solutions are called "Buprenex" and these are in less than mg forms as well. Bupe vials are extremely popular and becoming a hazard in western europe, particularly France. It's becoming an epidemic there.It may vary from country to country, but there definitivly is an IV solution version of Temgsic too... 0,3 mg per ml... SWIM never tried them himself, but he'd love to lay his hands on them sometime... He gets high for like 24 hour by snorting 1mg nasally (never developed any tolerance by using a careful "chipping" scheme) and because the bioavalibilty should be about twice as high IV he'd only need to shoot upp 2 ml... Subutex, on the other hand, isn't anything SWIM wants to inject... One tablet weights something like 400 mg and contains 8 mg buprenorphine... That's a purity of only 2% and it is "cut" with worse things than street drugs are!

tch2296
12-13-2007, 04:58 PM
I have been prescribed Suboxone for about 7 months following a year-long heroin/oxy/vicodin habit ($200/day, selling blow to afford it) and I remember when I first took it, it felt amazing but that was because I had been in severe withdrawals for a week already. Without a tolerance to opiates, or if you have not taken opiates for a very long time, bupe will get you high for a day or so. For me, I could take fucking 50 mg and I would feel nothing except the lack of craving. My doc started me on 24 mg/day and I am down to 12 mg/day now.

Lately I have discovered that if I wait several days before I take any opiates, esp bupe, the euphoric aspect is enhanced massively. Tolerance is a bitch and bupe has a very long half-life so you have to get everything out of your bloodtstream before you take it. I would recommend 1-2 mg of xanax also, I am prescribed 3 mg/day. My insurance pays for everything (~40 subs, 90 xanax per month).

Also, don't take another opiate soon after taking bupe, it will cause you to go into withdrawals, I know this from learning the hard way. And if you're on a bupe regimen it will take almost 5 days before you can get a real good high, even off a full agonist. I recently stopped taking subs for 3 days and snorted 80 mg of Oxy. It felt like I had snorted 20 mg. Even after 4 fucking days of craving. Therein lies the genius of the drug; it keeps opiophiles like us from ever really getting high while cutting our craving. And if you fuck with it (inject Suboxone/take it while on another opiate), then it fucks with you, hardcore. I have seen people sick for 2 days after smoking opium before taking thee subs.

collegekid
12-13-2007, 06:49 PM
Also, don't take another opiate soon after taking bupe, it will cause you to go into withdrawals, I know this from learning the hard way.

You have this backwards. Taking another opioid drug while on your buprenorphine, will not do anything. Literally. The binding affinity of bupe at your opiate receptors is so high that no other drug can break through.

If you are, however, taking and dependent on a regular full agonist and dose some buprenorphine... it will throw you into withdrawals as the bupe will kick the other chemicals off of your receptors.

Duckfeet
12-13-2007, 06:56 PM
Exactly, and even at 4mg daily, after waiting 24hrs, I barely felt some good bmore dope, and w/pills, forgettaboutit...bupe is a lot like methadone, in the sense that it'lll get rid of yer withdrawals, as long as u wait until u are kicking, to take first hit, but taking dope on top of bupe is boring, but does seem to kick up yer tolerance, just like methadone, even tho u don't feel anything ... which seems unfair as shit to me :-(


You have this backwards. Taking another opioid drug while on your buprenorphine, will not do anything. Literally. The binding affinity of bupe at your opiate receptors is so high that no other drug can break through.

If you are, however, taking and dependent on a regular full agonist and dose some buprenorphine... it will throw you into withdrawals as the bupe will kick the other chemicals off of your receptors.

mikells43
12-13-2007, 07:31 PM
I get no buzz, unless mixed with tramadol on occasion, and I also get a speediness, but keep in mind the speediness is usually the cause of a high dose of bupe I'd say 20+mg and up.

Has anyone had subutex and suboxone without negative effects from suboxone from nalaxone? If so, are they basically the same thing or is subutex way better? I know they're about the same because for the most part the naloxone is inactive for it's intended purpose. I've noticed with rectal use, you get major migraines because a tiny tiny bit of naloxone will be absorbed in the the rectal membranes.



I know people that can take suboxone and not get a negitive side effect like headaches and shit like that form naloxone. and i kno people like me that get such bad sides from suboxone that it changes our preception on life (seriously it does). subutex does not have naloxone in it thank god. i think if ur sensitive to naloxone do not take subxoone. some docs are dicks about perscribing it but if u tell them that u can shoot suboxone too and the nnarcan has no worth once u have bupe on ur brain and the junkies have found a way around that system allready lol then he/she will budge.






Actually temgesic in the 0.2mg form is called temgesic and the IV solutions are called "Buprenex" and these are in less than mg forms as well. Bupe vials are extremely popular and becoming a hazard in western europe, particularly France. It's becoming an epidemic there.

collegekid
12-14-2007, 09:56 AM
Exactly, and even at 4mg daily, after waiting 24hrs, I barely felt some good bmore dope, and w/pills, forgettaboutit...bupe is a lot like methadone, in the sense that it'lll get rid of yer withdrawals, as long as u wait until u are kicking, to take first hit, but taking dope on top of bupe is boring, but does seem to kick up yer tolerance, just like methadone, even tho u don't feel anything ... which seems unfair as shit to me :-(

Yeah... bupe is very tricky like that. Ive found that taking anything over 2mg/day (which does not really provide relief when one's habit is large) means you need to wait a considerable amount of time before you can go back to your DOC. Not only that, but your tolerance really isn't changing much. You cannot expect that "honeymoon" phase to ever come back... Buprenorphine is a double-edged sword in that respect. You take it daily, get relief, live a normal lifestyle not conducive to an addict, etc... Yet your tolerance is just as high as it ever was.

Don't even get me started on tolerance when you're jumping on and off the bupe regularly. *shakes head dramatically*

motts
12-14-2007, 10:07 AM
Ya I dunno man...I decided to try bupe out becuase I was getting back into the "Raging" stage. This is the funny thing with me......I love heroin and opiates, but i don't like being on them for long periods of time.

Like with dope I am always using for a couple days/week, withdrawaling, etc... so I was on bupe for 2 months, ya the first 3 weeks were great, irritability, pinned eyes, speediness, no depression, i was loving it...then that thought popped in my head "its gonna be a bitch to withdrawal off this in 1 year ++" so I weened myself down and hopped off it...

But personally I think bupe does provide relief if you want to be totally sober and there are some subtle effects even after the honeymoon phase, at least for me, it was weird some days i would feel it others i would not feel anything, but if i snorted my dose it always hit me super hard. (8mg daily...would usually snort 4mg, 8mg always gave terrible constipation / urinary retention, another reason i hopped off it).

As far as using it for withdrawals of dope i think it works great you skip the first 3-4 days of brutalness, but in my opinion days 5-6-7 there are slight body aches/mild depression, as far as tolerance issues, i would assume it levels it self out. but there have been many of times i have taken 1-2mgs and the next day taken a shot and felt full effects.

So I guess to each his own, i think bupe recreation ally to the opiate neive they will get some effect , and the user that uses daily (bupe) i would recommend taking as prescribed...but if looking for a nice buzz snorting always worked for me. other wise i believe it is out there to do what is supposed to do, help addicts live naturally...with the aid of bupe. take care all!

CambriaRKD
01-30-2008, 08:32 AM
1 mg of buprenorphine will still knock me off my feet, add a benzo to that and I'm passed out. Of course, this is only possible because I have no tolerance whatsoever.