does bupe actually stop or even reduce psychologic

[born2lose]

Psychological cravings,etc to actually catch a nod?

[mikells43]

it helps me fall asleep at nite if u mean that.

[Myth]

Since I've been on Bupe, I have not had a single craving aside from the night me and my girlfriend got into a fight, but I just took some Clonazepam (legally prescribed for generalized anxiety disorder with mild agoraphobia) and fell asleep. Woke up, took me dose and didn't crave anything. Talked things over with my girlfriend, came to a good agreement and what she did won't ever happen again.

So yes, it does take away cravings completely, at least it did for me. But, I quit the needle about 3 months ago, maybe 4, and that was on my own. I was mainly doing upwards of 200mg of oxycontin everyday along with handfuls of percocets/hydrocodones (always doing a cold water on them though, gotta save my liver ;)

[born2lose]

no, i mean, what do epople around here who sucessfully stay on bupe maint deal with cravings? do u get em even? cause i do, bupe keeps me from being sick but its the psych, cognitive behavioral half im missing

[Myth]

I guess you can't really take my knowledge of the subject too heavily. I've only been on bupe treatment for about a week now, but haven't used any other opiate since being in treatment.

Maybe you should are triggering the cravings? Are you around people who still use, or anything like that? Triggers will get ya everytime, that's why I've quit going to parties and quit hanging out with certain friends of mine.

[robotears]

I don't think suboxone has helped out with my cravings at all.

It definitly doesn't stop my craving for that warm fuzzy feeling.

[born2lose]

I don't think suboxone has helped out with my cravings at all.

true. same here,...i think thats why my dr was stressing outpatient rehab

[collegekid]

I get significant cravings at 2mg/day.

The higher doses, IMO, keep the cravings at bay a bit better. You know in the back of your head that you'll need a full 3 day break from the bupe to get back on your DOC. It kind of makes the decision for you, so you don't think about it as much.

[mikells43]

they are passing thoughts for me. my obsession has been taken away(i donno by who but it has;)). if u dwell on the shit then yes ua re going to crave it, obsession and compalusion are the 2 KEY COMPONENTS OF ADDICTION. so if u get a "craving" and make it an obsession, then if u obsess on it more it becomes a compalusion and before u kno it ur out copping. so fill ur head with other shit when u think ur going to think about using. but u have to change also , change ur behaviors, friends, places and things if u want to get well. u can't just take a pill and expect things to change on their own. u have to get the addict out of u, otherwise ur just an addict who is supressing his cravings for drugs via medication. time is a great gift too so use it!

[Duckfeet]

Me too: that's why I went back on methadone, as it gets rid of cravings better, at higher doses anyway...but like bupe, has constipation and other side effects...no free lunch, sadly...but yeah, like many addicts, I found that bupe got rid of physical withdrawal symptoms, but not craving, not at all....

I know Mikell think it's working some kind of program along w/Bupe. I disagree...I rarely miss a day in AA, and haven't craved a drink in years...I think it's just that--like they say--heroin addicts, and longterm addicts just don't do as well on bupe...and some of us--me--have more problems with the side effects: "speediness" constipation, mood swings....than others do... It's a shame, that those are the only two opiates available for treating addicts...we have a real puritan attitude towards heroin maintenance here....but I have a feeling, that if I were on heroin maintenance, I'd be like Mikell: happy w/my "medication" haha.....Hey, it's a *medicine* u fuckers!!! Man, I have trouble convincing most people methadone and bupe are "just meds" I'd *love* to try to convince'em my heroin was "just like insulin..." hahaha....

Well, not in the U.S., not w/our puritanical politicians...


no, i mean, what do epople around here who sucessfully stay on bupe maint deal with cravings? do u get em even? cause i do, bupe keeps me from being sick but its the psych, cognitive behavioral half im missing

[Suboxstitute]

At the right dose, yes.

I really don't want to stay on long long term, so I've reduced from 24mg at induction in mid August to 6-8mg now, evne 4mg some days.

BUT! At 4mg I have some cravings, not unbearable and not that I'd actually act on (yet), but definitely there. So to eliminate those, I should prob stay on 8mg.

But yes, in my experience, it does but usually needs a higher dose than 2mg if you were a semi to heavy user.

[mikells43]

u have to find the right dose of bupe to work for u also i might add. bupe is unlike methadone and other "fruit of the poppy", in the fact that you have to keep going up and up to avoid tollerence issues and increased cravings and desires with longterm use. i can say that with any normal opiate not including methadone u have to keep going up to stay normal or keep feeling good which ever u prefer. mabey someone can answer me this but with methadone after a period of staying on one dose for a year do u have to go up more or can u stay on that same dose for a long time? cause i kno with other opiates u have to keep going up. also anouther bad thing is with opiates u allways want it to feel like the first time(i hear this is famiular with crack too) u "chase the dragon or whatever" cause u wanna feel that fucking awsome euprhoria like the first one and u crave that. bupe isn't like those other opiates u can stay on prob under 8mg for a long time and life begins to get good. i am working anouther program to improve myself cause i beleive that just taking a pill does not work, and if u truely wanna quit u can do that and acheive happiness. u dont have to use for ur whole life to be happy, sure it takes a bit after u use to get movin again but that can be done, i see people that are proof of it daily.

[ToriiBabii]

For me, Bupe did not help me when I was craving or in withdrawal. I took it during both circumstances, and no matter how many mils I took, I still felt absolutely shitty. It's hard for me to see what the big deal is about Bupe, but I guess it really works for some people so I don't know...


Tori

[tptptp]

Psychological cravings,etc to actually catch a nod?

Stop Cravings? Yes, some, or no, depends on the person, dose etc. etc. mixed reviews, gotta give it a try to find out...& even on the same person this sometimeschanges. don't thnk you'll get a nod...you might catch a buzz in the beginning but it should go away. After the buzz goes away quite a few people can catch a little energy buzz by bumping small amounts throughout the day - but that seems to eventually go too.

[mikells43]

thinking positive helps too, thinking ur diff or this isn't going to work for me dont help.

[lunchbox]

your cravings are your cravings are subjecctive

[cg5]

cravings are always there..and will always be there.. the only way to stop cravings is to completely detach yourself from anything to do with your DOC and not think about it....cravings are the mental part...ive never been physically addicted but im almost 100% mentally addicted

[GoddessofRATs]

That's the same experience i had. But, next time i have to unfortunately go through w/d I'm gonna try it again. I still have like 3 days worth of bupe in my pill drawer. Sometimes the second or third time ya try something it works better.

GOR

For me, Bupe did not help me when I was craving or in withdrawal. I took it during both circumstances, and no matter how many mils I took, I still felt absolutely shitty. It's hard for me to see what the big deal is about Bupe, but I guess it really works for some people so I don't know...


Tori

[mikells43]

technically u can't crave somethign that is not in u. so if u dont have opiates in u then u cannot crave them but this happens over a period of time, hard time.

[kevin]

I took 18mg of suboxone today (it's only my third day back on, 8mg first day, 16mg second day, 18mg today) and I had to have that last 2 because I was craving pretty bad. Even at my moderate dose...it's just not the same as oxy. I still miss it, I don't think about it as much as I did even a week ago. I hardly think about it at all, and I haven't tried to score, so I guess in a way it works?

I just know last time getting off bupe was a snap and getting off done was terrible.

[Duckfeet]

Best of my memory, after about a year in AA, both times, cravings went away...but both times, after years of having forgot about them, I figured it was safe to eat a vicodin, no big deal..but cravings came back full blown...and both times, within a month, I bumped into dilaudids, which--along w/heroin--are my favs...

Weird tho, that I could go first five years, without anything, then seven years...and then within a few months, be back in full blown heroin-shooting junky mode...don't know what to say about it...other than that "nothing is forever..." and, of course, that throwing myself into AA produced a pretty happy drugfree life for a few years anyway...was a good deal, for me...and why I don't believe totally in the EDS theory, since I found I *could* be pretty happy off of opiates...just took a lot of work, and buying into things a good libertarian atheist like me, has no business buying into...but hell, when my life's at stake, I'll take any lifeboat around...even one I know is bullshit... ;-)


cravings are always there..and will always be there.. the only way to stop cravings is to completely detach yourself from anything to do with your DOC and not think about it....cravings are the mental part...ive never been physically addicted but im almost 100% mentally addicted

[Suboxstitute]

Truth be told, when I went on bupe in mid-August I really didn't have a choice.

It was sort of an quasi-inventention without the TV cameras LOL and most of the drama. My husband is a good guy; he just doesn't understand at all and he worries about me.

I made a REAL fatal error in judgement this summer that got me "outed" at a family wedding (raided a medicine cabinet where I knew there was a a ton of different opiate pills, didn't take a lot, but popped about 5-6 of something I hadn't had before - it was just fiorinal with codeine, but on top of the hydro I already took, and clonazipam.....and I was nodding out all over the place. I thought codeine would do NOTHING for me, but I started wobbling all over the place like a drunk.

They almost banned me from the wedding, (I went and behaved TOTALLY).

I hadn't hit the proverbial bottom, although my husband was pretty damn pissed that I'd been lying to him about how much I was doing etc.. So into the outpatient clinic I went right when we got home from the wedding out of state....

I believe the difference between craving and not craving on bupe is a combo of REALLY wanting recovery like Mikells and then being on the right dose to block the cravings but no more.

And if you're craving, but afraid to take more (like you want to stick with 4mg but do better on 8) since you're afraid you'll have a harder time coming off at the end - the end's (in my opinion) feally the the SAME for everyone on maintenance bupe.

When you get down to the last 1-2mg per day you gotta do it real real slow.

So whether you on were on a 16, 24, 8 or whatever maintenance dose, those first half-lives get cut down real fast, and then everyone is on a fairly level playing field when they get down lower.

Don't know if I'm making myself clear but I did up some numbers to prove it to myself.

[Duckfeet]

Like Rach and others told me on heroin-detox.com: u don't really know how strungout on bupe u r until u jump...I made the same error a lot of people make: after a while on bupe, I kind of convinced myself I wasn't really doing opiates anymore, that it was just like "another medication"...


Until I jumped: on day three, I knew *damn* well I was on a hardcore opiate, and it was a tough go, and I was glad as hell when on day 4 I bumped into some heroin...never want to go thru that again....

.Funny how we don't want to give that same slack to methadone and heroin...just bupe users....

I function good on dilaudids...doesn't mean I don't know they are an opiate....or that I'm *all* strungout...but bupe, since there is a lot less euphoria, produces some strange people, IMO...as long as somebody is still doing an opiate, they don't have much to teach me, other than which opiates I prefer...

I bought into the bupe myth once, won't do it again....

[johnysmoke]

It's works really well for me. I do actually get the nods from time to time. I have been on it for maintenance for about 5 months now and i still am able to catch the nod almost every day. But i also take xanax. I am prescribed 32mg subs a day 4...8mg pills and xanax 8mg a day. I never had the first craving from the very start. Big thumbs up in my book. Oh yeah if you wanna catch a good nod take a couple of 8's and take about 4 ultrams with it, that always seems to work wonders for a nice relaxing buzz. Just be careful.
Peace and Anarchy

[Inspektahdek]

It's works really well for me. I do actually get the nods from time to time. I have been on it for maintenance for about 5 months now and i still am able to catch the nod almost every day. But i also take xanax. I am prescribed 32mg subs a day 4...8mg pills and xanax 8mg a day. I never had the first craving from the very start. Big thumbs up in my book. Oh yeah if you wanna catch a good nod take a couple of 8's and take about 4 ultrams with it, that always seems to work wonders for a nice relaxing buzz. Just be careful.
Peace and Anarchy

Like in my previous thread "bupe and tramadol" I showed several reports including one of my own how two opiate agonist/antagonist half and halfs (bupe, tramadol) together make almost a full agonist in a partial sense. I've caught a buzz, once, only once by combining bupe and tramadol, I felt like I was on a nice medium dose of hydrocodone. The other time I tried it my timing was off, or something along those lines and it wasn't like the first combo I tried of the same meds. Also those 2 meds plus a light dose of a benzo will help exponentially! The first buzz I caught off subs, and this was in the beginning when I was scripted 32mgs a day and actually took that much for the first week I was also combining it with medium doses of clonazepam around 2mgs a day maybe 1 more mg depending on the day and I actually caught a buzz a fwe times, once a nod at night around 2am, nothing like oxy or fent but def a nod.

I can see how u get noddy with 8mgs of fucking alprazolam! (xanax) I think anyone would get noddy combining high doses of xanax with bupe. Are you using bupe to wean yourself off of opiates? Is the xanax scripted with the bupe or from seperate problem and doctor? Without regard, you are seriously building up a nasty benzo habit with that much a day! 8mgs of xanax is alot, and if u don't know it already, you should be tapering yourself a bit or using it only as needed because that is quite a dose and xanax being the most potent of most commonly prescribed benzos, it's dangerous for prolonged periods of 8mgs a day, also the shortest acting benzo, so it's sort of benzo crack because of the duration time and potency in comparison to other benzos IE diazepam, clonazepam, ativan, etc. Unless you have a huge psychological problem, and if so, I apologize, you really shouldn't be taking 8mgs a day.

Also how long have u been taking xanax? Sorry if I come off as rude, I'm just curious and looking out for your well-being. Cheers


-inspektahdek

[ILLWILLMD]

i have no cravings at all, maybe i wanna get high once and a while but i don want it bad enough to do anything about it. i just think it would be fun to do again is all. but not going back to the lifestyle.

[born2lose]

i want to thank everyone who responded. been on a crazy fentanyl smoking run and im just done.
fuck over everyone in my life and dont even care bc im too busy nodding
anyways, i think im gona start figuring out a dose that might do better as far as the mental obsession goes///im wondering should i go up, down....im on 12 mg i was thinking of trying 24 a few days to see if it helps...but does that saying "less is more" apply to this here dillema? should i experiment w lower doses?
<confused
again, thatnks for all the responses

[born2lose]

thanks tm420. will take me a while to absorb all this but i will
first off, read "the ULTIMATE sub guide" and "ZenPunk's bupe detox diary". A lot of your questions will be answered there. It's about 250 posts, but a lot of good information there.

I think the best way to take subutex is 2mg at a time, with 1 hour between doses. That way, you are giving the dose enough time to kick in, and you can judge if you need more or not. No reason to take 24mg because 12 didn't work. Why not just take 2mg every hour until the cravings go away?

Less is always more with subs- meaning taking more bupe isn't going to make you feel more high, and a lot of times, raising your dose doesn't help with cravings, either.

When I was taking subs, and I had a really bad craving for oxy I usually just waited till it passed- taking more bupe doesnt do much. Some things that did help cravings: whippets, xanax, jerking off/getting laid, spilling my guts on opiophile, and smoking weed. ALL of those things worked better than taking more subutex! Plus none of them have weird side effects of make you constipated.

I knew the amount of bupe I was a blocking dose: I couldnt get high, even if I sniffed a bunch of oxy. And knowing I couldnt get high, even if I had oxys in my hand, usually made the craving just annoying instead of desperate.

One of the best ways to avoid cravings is to set aside 2 days a month to chip (if you have the self control and resources to do this). When I had a craving, I would be able to say to myself "next saturday I'll be doin oxys"

Also, remember that bupe is an extremely strong drug- some calculators peg it at 50x more than morphine- so 2mg of bupe=100mg of morphine. It's a lot more complicated than that, but use that as a general rule. Imagine coming off of 1200mg of morphine a day- well thats what 24mg of subutex equals (again, in a very basic sense).

I hope this makes sense. I think if you ask people with a lot of buprenorphine experience, they will all tell you to dose like I'm describing.

Also, ask yourself what your goals with bupe are:
Do you want to taper all the way down to 0 and get clean in a relatively painless way?
Do you want to find a dose that your comfortable with and maintain there?
Are you going to take "breaks" from the bupe where you get high on your DOC?
If you are trying to get totally off opiates, how much time are you giving yourself to get clean?
Do you have a legit source for the bupe? If so, do you trust this doctor to be around for a long time?
What made you go on bupe in the first place?
Are you really ready to quit, or did you just go on bupe because you were about to be really dopesick?

Think about these questions. Then, if you have any more questions about bupe that arent answered in the sub guide or zenpunk threads, post your questions with some background and you will get better answers.