Group Therapy Hell

[Zoop]

As a result of getting nabbed by the old lady last weekend shooting up ambiens all day, while watching our toddler son (I posted about this), I have agreed to go back to a group therapy-type situation, twice weekly, at the same rehab I went to back in 2000 - it was inpatient for 28 days back then, but I am just doing two groups a week now.

Probably a lot of you have been in group therapy before.

This sucks. The counselor running MY group is a wimpy, pudgly, little closeted gay guy. He won't draw boundaries on how much any one member of the group can monopolize the time talking about how awful their life is. I'm sorry, but all of us have problems, what makes theirs so special? Listening to somebody ramble on for 30 minutes about how their life sucks really sucks. One thing for sure is that after I went to that first session on Tuesday night, I left feeling like my life is pretty darn good. Some of those people have really screwed up their lives.

The only reason I'm doing this is to appease my wife. I am a dope fiend, no doubt, but I really don't want to go through a divorce, and that option IS on the table. If I were her, I'd be thinking the same thing. I got caught for the same thing last November too.

Compare and contrast YOUR experiences with group therapy and/or meetings and discuss amongst yourselves.

[Coddfish]

Group therapy has been really good for me . . . . . . . to POOP ON! It saved my marriage too (temporarily, anyway). Not because there was any substantive progress towards a better me brought about by the group, but because the ol' lady agreed not to sacrifice me to Sappho if I went for 'help'--and that sacrifice thing is an ugly way to go. How good can group therapy be if, when you go, you want to be HIGH to help keep you from rippin' off everyone's heads? The answer is: not that good. I can relate to you zoop my brother. How long must this travesty continue? A few months? a year? If it's indefinitely, you may end up resenting the hell out of your wife as things become gloomier and more absurd with every meeting. Just a thought. Of course i'm sure you told her how "helpful" and "eye-opening" the sessions are? May I suggest keeping that story for a few weeks/months and then, when you are doing well, start to change your story and say that "they are saying a lot of things I don't agree with," or "I have grown and the group hasn't," or some crap. That might make the transition off that shite easier to explain.
your friend,
coddfish

[Zoop]

Coddfish, you are a very wise opiophile. I think I need to emphasize how totally awesome all the insights I am discovering about myself and my personality are to me.

I mentioned to her the other night (after the first session) how wimpy the moderator was and she looked a little worried. I think I need to change my tune. Actually, there is one ol' Aftro-American brutha who runs a group who is a real-live old school junky from back in the 70's. He was one of my counselors from when I wen there for in-patient in 2000. I just talked to him on the phone about switching groups. My wife knows to the dude to and she said she thought I should be in his group. So, I think I'll switch.

I am planning on about six months worth of this shite until I am "well" again.

Did you ever watch the Seinfeld show? You know the one were they thought George was mentally ill and the guys in white coats came and dragged him from work and his boss was saying "GET BETTER GEORGE" as they dragged him out?

[blackdog]

to the funnie farm where life is beautifull all year round......hey guys it's seems to me that i am my own worse enemy most of the time anyway.whenever i have detoxed,coldturkey'd and /or whatever it was to stop. that if i didn't have something to do so as to keep me busy and my mind off getting high. and if i didn't have a job or when not working i would do a meeting daily or nightly as much as i despised them.at time's all it took was a meeting to give me the itch to score. what went on in the parking lots after meetings was ridicules. half the crowd would be going for coffee and the other half for dope ha what a joke.
where was i? i'm so burnt out. peace da/dawgg:cool:

[devilsdrug]

group therapy sucks if everybody is too serious and if they there voluntarily they usually are, this one prison drug deal i was in if you PROGRAMED you got out sooner so basically the first time i kinda went along with it 9months every morning for and hr. the ones that made it suck were too serious alll the time the counselors tried to get them to tell all the time the fun times were when somebody would tell the counselor they were gonna rob him when they got out. any way the next 6 visits there i left sometimes with a bigger habit than i went in with . heh wadda gonna do when they 700 registered narcotic addicts in 1 prison on the halfway serious side ive done countless NA AA , meetings also in these 37 years , alls i ve learned is to keep it hidden better and to look way ahead keep my personel med cabinet full of many differnt options , in the ol days that was always a struggle

[exitwound]

My main suggestion is to find something in your life that is either not so obvious and self-damaging as shooting sleeping pills that can fill that void for you. Either it should be something that doesn't bother, or can't be seen/understood by the wife.

Now, suggesting that you hide things from the wife isn't really my focus here. I am trying to suggest that there MUST be things you can find to fill up that void in your life than shooting ambien....in all my drug knowledge, and understanding of life and human nature, I am confident of that much. The group may keep your wife happy, but as we both know, it's just a type of lie. The lie that the group is for you and not just to shut her up.

The best solution is a true one....that is, finding something to replace the needle full of ambien in your life. To fill that need another way, a way that doesn't interfere with your marriage or your quality of life. It's out there....just find it, and if need be, credit your group with helping you find it.

After all, WE are a type of group too :-)

[sidman]

I Have Been To Group Therapy Hell And Back......then Back Again. Then Back Again...again!! Many Time's....sometime's For A Week,sometimes Longterm (3 Months In,6 Months In,9 Months In!! ) And Everytime I Would Get Out,within Hour's I Would Get High,or I Would Have Someone Pick Me Up With Some Dope, Even.
Group Suck's,period!! For Me There Is Nothing More Uncomfortable Than Getting That Close To Other Dude's! And If Their Are Women Too(especially Pretty One's),well,now It's A Meat Market For Me!!so Then I Get Distracted!!no Frickin' Way....i Don't Trust Other's Too Well,not With my Issue's!!
I Can Share With Them,believe Me....i Blow Their Frickin' Mind's!! You See, I Am A Sick Mother Fucker Who Need's Serious,real Help!! Now, They Want Me To Open Up To Them But When I Do,they Can't Handle My Shit!! You See,i Make The Counselor's work!! I Give Them The Real Deal,no Fake Bullshit( Which They Want To Hear!! )you See,my Getting High Is The Symptom Of A Much Bigger Problem,and With Me,well,they(the Counselor's) Will Be earning Their Pay While I'm In The "house!!", Because I Give Them Real Life!!," Why Do I Get High? You Want To Know? Well Here It Is!!",and Then Everybody Is Like ,"whooaaaa!" and Then They Are All Stuck On Stupid With Nothing To Say, No Advice To Give, Because The Most Of Them Haven't Been Through Anything Like I Have Been Through( Foster Home's, Abused Sexually,physically,mentally,verbally For Year's And Year's!) And They Don't Know What To Say,or,if Any Are Joking About It,well,i'm About To flip On Them!! ," I Just Tried To Share And All You Mother Fucker's Can Give Me Back Is bullshit? ",then I Bug!!
I Usually Left Every Rehab I Went To With The Staff Having A New Respect For me!! Because When I Leave,i Leave Them A Little Wiser To The Real Deal Than Any Text-book Will Teach Them!! And If They Too Are A Recovering Addict,well,....i Still Left Them Smarter Because I Don't Bullshit!! I Tell It Like It Is...fuck 'em!!....now Help Me!!!
Before I Ever Got High(8 Yrs Old First Drink,13 Year's Old First Drug) I Had Already Commited 4 Serious Crime's,no Joke!! I Was Fucked Up Before I Started Getting High,because,i Was One Seriously Pissed Off Kid(which I Still Am, Inside) !! I Got High To mellow Out!! when I Am High,i Am The Freindliest Person,cool And Life Is Good,
And When I Get Sober,all The Bullshit Feeling's Come Back,and I Turn Into A Frickin' Nutcase!! So,sittin' In Group All Sober,dealing With That Shit Can Be Very Stressing,and Mind Racking,all For What? Am I Gonna Keep Doing That ,just To Leave And Still Get High? Hell No,man!! It Is Totally Up To The Individual, If One Want's To Stop,one Will Stop!! Some People Go Because They Have To(i've Been There Too!!) And They Don't Want To Stop....well,then They Probably Won't!!
Me, I Still Smoke Pot,trip(very Seldom These Day's),and Drink (mostly Beer) But Hey,i Quit Shootin Dope(for 13 Year's) And I Won't Allow Myself Painkiller's,because I Know I Can't Handle Opiates Anymore Because They Will Run My Life...i'm Much Happier This Way!!
I Never Knew You Could Shoot Ambiens,i Would Have Tried It!! I'm In No Way Suprised Because I Would Have Done It Too If I Knew I Could!! So,anyway's One Has To Figure Out If They Will Quit Drug's For Themselve's Or Someone Else.....i Find Doing For The Self To Be The First Step In Order To Do For Other's But Hey,sometime's Other's Want To Control The One's They Love......drug's Can Be A Problem!! Me, I'm Gonna Use Everything I Want Beside's The One's That Will Ruin My Life Or Kill Me!! I'm Not Going Through Life Sober,god Made Plant's(drug's) For Us!! For Our Own Mental,"medication!! Seriously, Do You Honestly Think They Weren't Meant For Us? The Key Word Is "control"!! Find It!!

[Zoop]

My main suggestion is to find something in your life that is either not so obvious and self-damaging as shooting sleeping pills that can fill that void for you. Either it should be something that doesn't bother, or can't be seen/understood by the wife.

Now, suggesting that you hide things from the wife isn't really my focus here. I am trying to suggest that there MUST be things you can find to fill up that void in your life than shooting ambien....in all my drug knowledge, and understanding of life and human nature, I am confident of that much. The group may keep your wife happy, but as we both know, it's just a type of lie. The lie that the group is for you and not just to shut her up.

The best solution is a true one....that is, finding something to replace the needle full of ambien in your life. To fill that need another way, a way that doesn't interfere with your marriage or your quality of life. It's out there....just find it, and if need be, credit your group with helping you find it.

After all, WE are a type of group too :-)

No shit, I know all about "filling the drug-shaped hole." I have those things - an active spiritual life, involvement in 12-step recovery (and I mean the steps), a hobby and a family to take care of. What you are right is that it's obviously self-destructive and dangerous, and that is why I have decided that I no longer need to take ambien through a needle. It's crazy.

But, lisnup - if yer gunna start lecturin' people in this forum on why they the feel the need to use drugs and how they can stop, then you got your work cut out for you bro, b/c this ain't exactly a recovery-oriented website. Are you clean and sober?

[Wildman]

Zoop,

Hang in there with _your_ plan. You sound like you do have a rational plan to
deal with this latest "revelation" on your wife's part, and it does sound like you
do want to scale down on your partying activities. Deal with it _your_ way, or
you will never be satisifed that _you_ really are the "master of your domain"
(sorry for the lame Seinfeld reference).

You and I sound like we are in very similar stages of live with respect to the
wife and kids, and wanting very much to keep that all together. I too was faced
with an ultimatum from the spousal unit - any more pods/opioids/crap like that
and IT'S OVER. You value your wife/kids and etc, so you are modifiying your
behaviour (for the most part) to not jeopardize those things that you hold dear.
Excellent.

I say keep up appearances with the wife - go to the meetings even if they are
a complete waste of time. That way, she will see steps in the direction that you
have indicated you want to go. Maybe you can eventually switch to a one-on-one
deal with a therapist who isn't a complete asshat.

I had to agree to go back to therapy when I last got nailed (thank god she didn't
bring up rehab - I'm just an occasional tea drinker). I brought her to therapy
once with me (the therapist is a great guy) and said the right things and things
were cool. Decided to see my shrink more regularly and work with the man
who has the PAD!.

Sorry to ramble, but I think there are two components to getting past the
current situation:

1. Make sure your wife/family sees you actively trying to work on this by
_going_ to the group hell, even if it's a waste, as appearances are important.

2. Keep talking with your wife about this even if it sux. She's probably scared out of
her mind that she will lose you. Make sure you address her concerns without
belittling them (even if it's bullshit).

3. See if you can find a one-on-one therapist who isn't an idiot, it should be
much easier to talk with someone whose opinion you actually value.

You seem to have the rest figured out... you can get past this awful period where
this subject comes up daily at home...

Wildman

[sidman]

if one can find sobriety,and be happy with it,than i say," run with it and don't look back!!"
For me ,sobriety is the hardest thing in the world to come by,I am a truly sick individual so it would take very hard work(I have been there) and what they call,"rigorous honesty",every day!!!
I certainly don't knock anyone who CAN stay completely sober and clean,I know it's definately a possibility because I know those who have done it..I myself have done it(even gone without cigarrette's!Everything)...but for me right now,I'd rather chose "control",over complete abstainance from all drug's.
so,if it work's for you,than good!!
Rock On!!

[Kallie]

Hey Zoop! Don't get discouraged. I (like everyone) got "caught" by my freaking monster-in-law a while back. She kept dropping huge hints during her seemingly interminable visit, in front of my oblivious hubby, like "Did you go to the dentist today? Your words sound kind of slurred." Etc, etc. That was right after I face-planted on the brick terrace, thank God neither of them saw THAT. So, I smeared concealer and foundation shit all over this oozy, fresh chin scrape (looked like someone used a chin-cheese shredder on me). Anway, I got nailed. What painful shit.

So, I had group therapy hell. For 14 months. My escape was secured by baking cakes. No, not with files. Real "Happy F**king Anniversay for staying Clean Another Year" cakes. Problem was they were so good, not to brag, or maybe everyone in our position loves cake, but the group spiraled from 12 to 50, in short order. I was baking 3 to 5 cakes a week... and doing requests ("Oh you want chocolate cherry for yours, and you want carrot walnut for yours, ...), and the hubby started getting pissed. Plus, lots of people call and left messages on the machine about how much they LOVE me and KEEP coming (with the F**king cakes).

So, he DEMANDED I stop going. I did, and boy, was my return to my former life fun. But I digress. Maybe you could try the cake route? Good luck.;)

[Coddfish]

Sorry, the server sent two posts and I'm too dumb to fix it.

[Coddfish]

But, lisnup - if yer gunna start lecturin' people in this forum on why they the feel the need to use drugs and how they can stop, then you got your work cut out for you bro, b/c this ain't exactly a recovery-oriented website. Are you clean and sober?
DITTO. You must realize how absurd it is to get that sort of advice from people on an OPIOPHILE(!!) website who don't know jack about you. Please don't tell people here what they need to do to be successful unless they specifically ask for it.

Karen, that's a great f'n post: funny, informative, non-judgemental, and even proofread. Please post more often.
the coddfish

[sidman]

if that last post about "lecturing" is about me....well,i apologize if i lectured,i didn't mean to come across that way, so like i said, I' m sorry about that. i am definately not trying to piss people off.
i guess i just feel so negative about the whole group thing because for me,it was just so damn hard to do. i needed to get some really bad traumatic events of my life out into the open so that i could deal with them. Even though it was (and still is) the hardest thing for me to do,it really did help me. " deep,dark secrets die in the light of exposure" is a cool phrase that i heard from the counselor in my group and you know what? he was right because when the group was over and it was time for a smoke break before the next group, i felt like i had lifted an enormous weight off of my chest!!People were coming up to me,giving me hug's,telling me to, " hang in there it'll get better," and some could actually relate to me(which I didn't think was possible,but then again,what makes ME so darn special? I'm not alone!!) and they would pull me aside and share with me some of THEIR deep,dark secret's,which made me feel like I was HEARD,UNDERSTOOD FOR ONCE!! Yeah group can be a good thing,they can help,I guess I was focusing on the hard part of it instead of the benefits and rewards of it all.
from now on i will use " I ", statements and I will try my hardest not to tell people how to do their, "program" okay guy's? I'm really sorry about that......i just get so damn ,"Passionate" over some subjects,thats all.
For me,groups can be so intense,but I have found that the harder I work at it,the better the results(naturally,right?) and that the harder I hit the floor,the higher I can bounce!!
Zoop,I don't have an ol' lady,so I think I must not understand totally, what you are going through(although I did lose my best girlfreind EVER because of my choice to continue using Heroin!) and I haven't ever had someone else who love's me intervene either(besides the court system,but they don't exactly LOVE me!) I think I may have been a little jealous of you,and I may envy that you even have a girlfreind(or wife),because I haven't been able to maintain a relationship in quite some time because I am so insecure about myself and my self esteem is rather poor also. I have what is called P.T.S.D.,(post traumatic stress disorder)
and sometimes I am so darn wired from it that I don't think/say thing's the way I mean to get them across. The psych's always want to give me medication(seroquil,resperidol) and it really bothers me because they muddy up my thinking so that I can't function at 100%. I'm so frustrated with the whole deal because they always want to go the med's route!! To be honest,I really do get more help from talking to other addicts and dumping out my feelings on them(if they are willing to listen to me or hear me out)than I ever get from taking the med's they want to give me all the time. some of those med's really mess me up( especially seroquil!!) and I don't walk right,talk right,think right and they dehydrate me so I am always drinking water and pissing. I say this honestly when I tell you guy's that some of those med's they give mess me up more than my D.O.C. (drug of choice) does!!
but anyway's you are all right that I am not in the position to tell others how to run their recovery,and Zoop, I really do believe that you can patch things up with your woman as long as you want to. I believe that you CAN be successful, and from now on I will not tell other's what to do(what was I thinking?) and I will try to stay as positive as I can. Believe it or not Zoop, I DO get something out of reading your thread,and it also helps ME too....... so,thank's for being honest and saying how you feel. THATS THE GOOD STUFF!!

[exitwound]

No shit, I know all about "filling the drug-shaped hole." I have those things - an active spiritual life, involvement in 12-step recovery (and I mean the steps), a hobby and a family to take care of. What you are right is that it's obviously self-destructive and dangerous, and that is why I have decided that I no longer need to take ambien through a needle. It's crazy.

But, lisnup - if yer gunna start lecturin' people in this forum on why they the feel the need to use drugs and how they can stop, then you got your work cut out for you bro, b/c this ain't exactly a recovery-oriented website. Are you clean and sober?

Hey man, I didn't mean to lecture you.....just offering some advice and offers of help! I didn't mean to sound as though I was passing judgement! That's the last thing I had on my mind.

If anything, I have compassion for somebody who's been driven so far as to shoot ambien, that's all. No judgement, no "looking down on," not by a long shot. I have a lot of respect for you, brother; just hoping that my thoughts might be of use to some of you....

As for clean and sober.....no, not really. On the one hand I don't really use anything on a recreational basis, but I definitely do get "high" sometimes. Mostly in the case of marijuana.....

Like I said, sorry if I came across as judgemental in the slightest. That's not where I was coming from at all and you deserve an apology if that's how it seemed.

[exitwound]

Hey Zoop! Don't get discouraged. I (like everyone) got "caught" by my freaking monster-in-law a while back. She kept dropping huge hints during her seemingly interminable visit, in front of my oblivious hubby, like "Did you go to the dentist today? Your words sound kind of slurred." Etc, etc. That was right after I face-planted on the brick terrace, thank God neither of them saw THAT. So, I smeared concealer and foundation shit all over this oozy, fresh chin scrape (looked like someone used a chin-cheese shredder on me). Anway, I got nailed. What painful shit.

So, I had group therapy hell. For 14 months. My escape was secured by baking cakes. No, not with files. Real "Happy F**king Anniversay for staying Clean Another Year" cakes. Problem was they were so good, not to brag, or maybe everyone in our position loves cake, but the group spiraled from 12 to 50, in short order. I was baking 3 to 5 cakes a week... and doing requests ("Oh you want chocolate cherry for yours, and you want carrot walnut for yours, ...), and the hubby started getting pissed. Plus, lots of people call and left messages on the machine about how much they LOVE me and KEEP coming (with the F**king cakes).

So, he DEMANDED I stop going. I did, and boy, was my return to my former life fun. But I digress. Maybe you could try the cake route? Good luck.;)

HAH! Weird..... maybe you should have been baking marijuana cakes? :D

[Kallie]

Karen, that's a great f'n post: funny, informative, non-judgemental, and even proofread. Please post more often.
the coddfish

Thank you very much, kind Sir.

And I love this forum; pretty quickly anyone who felt they might have stepped on toes(in lots of threads), apologizes. That's rare, and frankly, I've found a pretty damn decent quality in most opiophiles. Some groups you don't get that kindness, genuine thoughtfulness or concern for one another. Here it is different. In my eyes, it makes better people of the ones that care to admit... if they offended, it wasn't intended.

I believe last line used before on a cop. Okay, I end this Love Fest.:rolleyes:

[exitwound]

There's something about opiophiles. I think we understand pain, healing, and kinship better than most.....