BZP (Benzylpiperazine)

[underide]

Ive been coming across this a bit recently:
some council estate kids over here have found another alternative to a speedball:
BZP mixed with smack! (that is according to some local tabloids)

BZP is a piperazine with a chemical structure very similar to amphetamine that you can get in headshops over here, so what some 'kids' are said to be doing is bang it with smack and apparently even if enough of it is slammed on it's own, it provides a rush very similar to an amphetamine rush.
I have heard similar claims before, but never got around to actually slamming it myself.
Recently we got all these pamphlets popping up at needle exchanges about all the evils of intravenous BZP, and that has piqued my interest to it again
It is also said to be slightly caustic though, so if you miss your shot it's said to burn like a motherfucker.
I have been meaning to try that for some time now, but for now coke smack and 'done are more than enough for my madness, plus bzp is not even all that cheap - 15 euro for just 2 tablets (and you usually need 2 at the very least to even feel anything - and i can get 3 ecstasy tablets for the same price over here most of the time.
I have done BZP orally and it kinda sucks (kind of like speed but too much body load and bad side-effects)
But it is said that if you bang it straight up it is hardly distinguishable from amphetamines (that is the part which got my interest most, and i probably will try it myself soon enough)

Anyone ever try it or have any experience with it?

[Seedy]

Never banged it but bzp is the pits. A tweaky teeth clenshing anxious buzz with the worst comedown I've ever encountered. Like 5 shit "e" comedowns and 5 nasty hangovers put together. Fucking nasty.

[underide]

Yea, the one time i tried it orally it was pretty hard on me physically, plus i was pissing brown urine for two days afterwards.

I read somewhere though that when administered intravenously, in sufficient dosage it's pretty un-distinguishable from iv amphetamine, here is the quote from another article where it seems to confirm this too:

"The effects of BZP are largely similar to, but much weaker than, amphetamines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine),[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzylpiperazine#_note-7) with one study finding that former amphetamine addicts were unable to distinguish between dextroamphetamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine) and BZP administered intravenously.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzylpiperazine#_note-8) Users report alertness, euphoria and a general feeling of well being. The perception of certain sensations such as taste, colour or music may be subjectively enhanced. The average duration is longer than that of dextroamphetamine, typically lasting 4-6 hours with reports as long as 8 hours depending on the dose.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] A recent study has shown that mixtures of BZP with other piperazine drugs such as TFMPP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifluoromethylphenylpiperazine) share certain pharmacodynamic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacodynamic) traits with MDMA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA).[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzylpiperazine#_note-Baumann) Sometimes with the same dose, there are reports of, extreme anxiety, lack of concentration and difficulty to deal with every day problems (the latter two more common during the "comedown" period)."

Still, seems like it might not be a very healthy practice

[Tea Time]

Ohh God! :eek: I wouldn't do that! That (to me - just my opinion) is SUCH a SHITTY drug. It wasn't an enjoyable experience for me at all. I don't think anyone I've talked to enjoyed it enough to want to do it more than just a couple times experimenting. It was already mentioned, but the body load was terrible! And to think about IV'ing it especially...Yuck! On top of that, you'd be buying tablets from a head shop. Who knows what kind of shit is in there in addition to all the fillers, binders, and other bullshit.

If you said that you can get real MDMA for the same price, I would definitely do that instead. A couple of the times I tried it (never IV'd though) I tried it with TFMPP and it was better in that combo than it was alone. This was back when Research Chemicals were really easy to get and quasi-legal. I am almost positive that it is illegal now here in the US, so in my opinion it wasn't good enough to take the risk to obtain any more. It also wasn't good enough that I would encourage you or anyone else to try it.

[TokinDerrick]

I've heard of it, but never seen it or anything. is it what was in the huffer thingies?

I'd like to try any legal drug that'll get one high. is it in any medicine I should know about or anything?

[underide]

Ohh God! :eek: I wouldn't do that! That (to me - just my opinion) is SUCH a SHITTY drug. It wasn't an enjoyable experience for me at all. I don't think anyone I've talked to enjoyed it enough to want to do it more than just a couple times experimenting. It was already mentioned, but the body load was terrible! And to think about IV'ing it especially...Yuck! On top of that, you'd be buying tablets from a head shop. Who knows what kind of shit is in there in addition to all the fillers, binders, and other bullshit.

If you said that you can get real MDMA for the same price, I would definitely do that instead. A couple of the times I tried it (never IV'd though) I tried it with TFMPP and it was better in that combo than it was alone. This was back when Research Chemicals were really easy to get and quasi-legal. I am almost positive that it is illegal now here in the US, so in my opinion it wasn't good enough to take the risk to obtain any more. It also wasn't good enough that I would encourage you or anyone else to try it.

not a very pleasant overall experience orally, that's true. But for some reason there seems to be enough people buying that shit so that as was mentioned somewhere "local headshops pay their rent with the sales of BZP"
That is a bit strange to me. Then again, could all just be some rumor hype.
The thing that got my attention in particular is the claim that it is very similar to amphetamines when slammed, but i have not spoken personally to anyone who has actually done it iv, so, you just never know.
Only one way to know for sure...


I've heard of it, but never seen it or anything. is it what was in the huffer thingies?

I'd like to try any legal drug that'll get one high. is it in any medicine I should know about or anything?

I've heard that it was used as a 'worming' treatment for pets and livestock, but maybe it was just some crazy rumor.
I think it was used as a slimming agent and an antidepressant legitimately in certain countries, but now it's use seems to be limited to 'head-shop' trade, and research chemical market.
Apparently it's pretty big in New Zealand to, where it's still legal also.

[Seedy]

^ Yeah still legal here for another few weeks.

[underide]

^ Yeah still legal here for another few weeks.

They're making it illegal in NZ soon??
Well, ain't that a kick in the shins for the head shop heads!?

I doubt that it would be greatly missed by the general recreational drug user public though.:confused:
Not that many people seem to actually enjoy them.
Thats probably why they keep coming up with so many different BZP preparations, combining other piperazines like TFMPP, McPP, MEOPP etc, into the mix, which is supposed to make them feel more like genuine ecstasy tabs. They're still pretty far off ofcourse.

Over here, apart from your plain BZP, there are literally tons of other different preparations of BZP combined with the above analogues and many more, they keep experimenting with at the head shops.
And they're still hanging onto their legal status over here.
I'm not sure when or even if they ever make all the Piperazines illegal over here.
And as for me, i don't think i would miss them at all if they do become illegal.

Still planning to slam some BZP iv though.
Wait for an update, if you give a shit ;)

Don't hold your breath though!

[Seedy]

^^ Apparantly headshops have got some new pills ready in preperation for thre ban on bzp. I've tried one of the supposed replacements made with a blend of caffeine and amino acids, didn't do shit.

I'm scared that when bzp's illegal people are gonna start selling e's adulterated with bzp. In fact they already are. :(

[underide]

I'm scared that when bzp's illegal people are gonna start selling e's adulterated with bzp. In fact they already are. :(


That is happening here too, and has been for some time now.
Now, probably more often than ever though.
Plus, there is always a number of them sent out regularly for testing by the unsuspecting users, that have been found to contain BZP, TFMPP, etc. among caffeine, ephedrine and lots of other useless and semi-useless crap.
Infact, if i remember correctly, even before about 2003, when there was still virtually no legally sold BZP over here, people were getting duped with e's that were supposed to have MDMA, but instead had BZP as well as a bunch of other crap in them. It might have been happening for decades now, i presume.
Some even bought rolls with PMA and DOB, with tragic results.

The trick is ofcourse to have a source that you can trust, and even though some 'old schoolers' might say differently, there are still a lot of very decent rolls, very pure (i'm talking 90% pure MDMA or even more) around here now.
I think that the fact that some older 'ravers' are saying that ecstasy is not what it used to be is largely because over prolonged use you start to get increasingly diminishing positive effects from MDMA.
So even if (by some unlikely chance) you consistently get 98% pure MDMA overtime, if you party with them every damn weekend for 10 years, obviously you will start to feel a lot more shittier side-effects and fast as opposed to maintaining same positive effects on the drug, even at the same purity.
I think it's just the way it seems to work with MDMA.

[Tea Time]

Even though I wouldn't slam BZP, I would be interested to hear about your results if you ever get around to trying it. Ten or twelve years ago I would have tried it without thinking, but I am 100% done with IV'ing anything.


That is happening here too, and has been for some time now.
Now, probably more often than ever though.
Plus, there is always a number of them sent out regularly for testing by the unsuspecting users, that have been found to contain BZP, TFMPP, etc. among caffeine, ephedrine and lots of other useless and semi-useless crap.
Infact, if i remember correctly, even before about 2003, when there was still virtually no legally sold BZP over here, people were getting duped with e's that were supposed to have MDMA, but instead had BZP as well as a bunch of other crap in them. It might have been happening for decades now, i presume.
Some even bought rolls with PMA and DOB, with tragic results.

Yeah unfortunately that it a major problem no matter where you go. I know that a lot of people are able to sell bullshit like that to naive high-school kids and they never know the difference.

On a sidenote, you might take a look at Ecstacydata.org. It is a pretty cool site. I'm not sure if they have tested tabs from where you live, but they test tabs from cities all over the US. There are a couple of related sites (I think one was called dancesafe or something like that) that tests tabs from other places in the world. It is pretty interesting to see what is actually in some of the tabs that are sold to people.


The trick is ofcourse to have a source that you can trust,

Yep! Now days I hardly ever do MDMA anymore, but when I do I always get it from a reputable trustworthy source. I seriously doubt that I would want to take a tab from someone that I didn't know to be reputable. It's like your mama told you: Don't take candy from strangers! Shit...You definitely wouldn't want to just ingest some of the supposed "tabs" that were tested by the website that I mentioned above. It is crazy. Everything from nothing (just plain fillers and binders) to aspirin, caffeine, ketamine, DOB, DOC, any number of tryptamines or phenethylamines, DXM, MDA, PMA, BZP, Provigil, ephedrine...You really have NO IDEA what you could be taking unless your source is reputable. Kind of scary to think about...


and even though some 'old schoolers' might say differently, there are still a lot of very decent rolls, very pure (i'm talking 90% pure MDMA or even more) around here now.
I think that the fact that some older 'ravers' are saying that ecstasy is not what it used to be is largely because over prolonged use you start to get increasingly diminishing positive effects from MDMA.
So even if (by some unlikely chance) you consistently get 98% pure MDMA overtime, if you party with them every damn weekend for 10 years, obviously you will start to feel a lot more shittier side-effects and fast as opposed to maintaining same positive effects on the drug, even at the same purity.
I think it's just the way it seems to work with MDMA.

I agree with you 100% on this. When I was younger and took MDMA more frequently, I noticed that it was not nearly as enjoyable when I was doing it too often. Now that I'm older and take it very rarely, the experiences are incredible! The tabs that I'm getting are pretty similar to what I got years ago (from the same source) but my experiences have been much better. I know that tabs vary batch to batch, but these have always been very consistent. In the '80's in Dallas is where the vast majority of recreational MDMA use started in the US and because of that the purity has always been very good. But the very nature of how the drug works guarantees that repeated use will diminsh the amount of serotonin that you have to be released. Using them rarely also makes the come-down and the day-after hangover much less severe too.

[jackjohnson]

Yea, the one time i tried it orally it was pretty hard on me physically, plus i was pissing brown urine for two days afterwards.

I read somewhere though that when administered intravenously, in sufficient dosage it's pretty un-distinguishable from iv amphetamine, here is the quote from another article where it seems to confirm this too:

"The effects of BZP are largely similar to, but much weaker than, amphetamines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine),[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzylpiperazine#_note-7) with one study finding that former amphetamine addicts were unable to distinguish between dextroamphetamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine) and BZP administered intravenously.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzylpiperazine#_note-8) Users report alertness, euphoria and a general feeling of well being. The perception of certain sensations such as taste, colour or music may be subjectively enhanced. The average duration is longer than that of dextroamphetamine, typically lasting 4-6 hours with reports as long as 8 hours depending on the dose.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] A recent study has shown that mixtures of BZP with other piperazine drugs such as TFMPP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifluoromethylphenylpiperazine) share certain pharmacodynamic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacodynamic) traits with MDMA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA).[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzylpiperazine#_note-Baumann) Sometimes with the same dose, there are reports of, extreme anxiety, lack of concentration and difficulty to deal with every day problems (the latter two more common during the "comedown" period)."

Still, seems like it might not be a very healthy practice

i've read reports and other things that say BZP is terrible by itself but if you mix BZP and TFMPP its a pretty nice experience

[underide]

On a sidenote, you might take a look at Ecstacydata.org. It is a pretty cool site. I'm not sure if they have tested tabs from where you live, but they test tabs from cities all over the US. There are a couple of related sites (I think one was called dancesafe or something like that) that tests tabs from other places in the world. It is pretty interesting to see what is actually in some of the tabs that are sold to people.


I don't think i have ever been to that website (i might have a while ago, i'll have a look again), but back in my pill days - around 2000-2002, i used to be very obsessed with www.pillreports.com (http://www.pillreports.com), and used visit it quite often back then. Obviously i don't visit that much these days, but from what i can remember of it, it has reports on pills from all over the world, and quite an extensive section from our part of the world too. that is the only site (apart from this one) that i used to actually contribute to (just all my different E's experiences).
Yeah, i remember back in early 2000 is when it all really started for me - I have tried my 2 first ecstasy pills at a party then and i was just so overwhelmed by the experience, that i ended up doing it very regularly.
there was really no way to describe the euphoria i've felt , it was truly incredible.
But after doing it for a while after that, each comedown would start to get worse and worse, up to the point where after taking some pills on saturday, i would feel so goddamn shit for 3 even 4 whole days afterwards.
Actually, ecstasy (as well as amphetamines) has played a significant part in me getting involved with opiates. I can still remember the instant relief of a bad MDMA comedown alleviated instantly by a hit of heroin. that is probably as close as you can come to explain to someone not yet addicted to heroin the significance of 'fixing' an actual sickness.
That is when i truly started to abuse opiates. They eased my comedowns so much but after awhile i have forgotten all about ecstasy only to become addicted to heroin, and here i am now..very much addicted to methadone plus heroin on top. I really wish i could just go back to my pill days, but no such luck.
Since going on 'done i have done E a few times, but ofcourse it's not as enjoyable as it once was.
I did come into some pure MDMA powder about 2 years ago, and that was totally unexpected- probably just as good as some of the very first times i have tried it.


i've read reports and other things that say BZP is terrible by itself but if you mix BZP and TFMPP its a pretty nice experience

Well 'nice' is a subjective term. i haven't tried the combo myself (just BZP on it's own), but from what i hear it is still full of unwanted side-effects.
The head shop heads are going by some 'pharmacodynamic' theories (that personally i have no clue about) that suggest that once you mix BZP with TFMPP, you get an experience that closely resembles MDMA.
I'm a bit skeptical about that to be honest.

[Chipper]

I have tried BZP + TFMPP in NZ when I went there on holidays.

Like MDMA without the love.

[Tea Time]

The head shop heads are going by some 'pharmacodynamic' theories (that personally i have no clue about) that suggest that once you mix BZP with TFMPP, you get an experience that closely resembles MDMA.
I'm a bit skeptical about that to be honest.

As you should be. To me, there is nothing that "closely resembles" ecstacy except ecstacy. Other Research chemicals had similar qualities that they shared with ecstacy, but none was very close to being the same.

I have tried BZP and TFMPP together and it was a more enjoyable experience than BZP alone, but still nothing to get too excited about. When I made my first post, I said that I was pretty sure that BZP and TFMPP were made illegal along with all of the other research chemicals but I was wrong. BZP is illegal here, but TFMPP is still legal. That alone should tell you something about the "quality" of that chemical right there. If the United States and it's all-powerful "war on drugs" decided not to outlaw TFMPP, then you have a pretty good idea that it is not a very good or enjoyable recreational drug...