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Chicago
11-08-2007, 10:40 AM
Raw Dope....:rolleyes: 2day Swim had just picked up 2 raw grms of white heroin, came in 3-4 chunks no powder, only powder that was there was the powder that was made after swim put it between his butt cheeks for the train ride home. Ok the topic of this thread is about 2-3 things.
1.SHOOTING STYLE'S
2.CUTTING
3.TIME ON HOW LONG IF COOKING RAW TO NOT KILL, ALSO #3 WILL BE ANSWERED IN THE #1.
Well hear we go, I heard this a few times in my 15yrs of shooting heroin, example, when my buddy moved from chicago to south dakoata to quit heroin for about a year he in the beginning drove 6-10hrs around there to Minn. to a methadone clinic to see where he can cop some dope b/c he wanted it that bad to drive that far.So he found someone got the "D" & "
Pimp was like it's good "D" we get it from Chicago, so he was like oh great, good stuff but the same old thing been doing for 8yrs, anyway he got the dope and did it in the car w/dude, put in the spoon & my boy broke out a lighter to start to cook it, & pimp was like hold u don't need to cook this just put some water on it & use the plunger to mix this & sure enuff thats what he did w/no cooking & don't remember if he even used a cotton or not b/c he told me it had no resin/cut on there to filter, so he told me the pimp said they call this cold SHOOTING"no heat @ all". I get raw all the time and I allways cook and filter my shit, sometimes it can be clean as hell with tint of light/dark brown on the dart & others same but would have a tad of resin stuck to the cotton & remember 75% of my raw is given to swim in front of his face of the 10mg stick & weighed out exactly. "QUESTION 2.
2.I was allways told again in that 15yr period thats it so much worse to catch a bad RAW habit then to just do regular bags, but when helping swim make his bags is would say that & say he cutting it to streatch out the dope to sell, but if it would be personal he would do the same for himself to streatch it out but a little less of the pill to cut it, he use to cut it w/DORMS, SLEEPINAL OR LACTOSE. So what swim is getting @ w/the 2 raw grams he got needs to last him a week, would you just do the raw in smal amounts or put the sleepinal on there to streatch it a little bit? Swim did try it raw/naked already was great,but funny thing b/c sum1 made a post on this a few daws ago & I allways get this w/raw is them PINS & NEEDS after i.v.ing, why only happens w/raw to swim? Ok back up, do u get the sleepinal for the cut to streatch it, but also heard this will potinate the heroin as well aswell as streatching it a little bit farther to make it last longer for him."THIS IS ALL PERSONAL USE" So does he just do the raw or put the sleepinal on there to potinate if so or what do u PEOPLE WHO REALLY NO WHAT I'm SAYING ON THIS ONE THINK SHOULD BE DONE. Question 3.
3.Cooking was allways done till it bubbled long enuff till was not shit left floating aroung , so this does go into question #1 on cold cooking , so am very confused,b/c some of u people that are very into opioid chemistry say that cooking to long can kill the dope, or something in that sense? Or cooking at diff temps kills some some opiates, meaning some op's cook at diff levals and can kill if over cooked do not no if this to comply to heroin.

Ok guys if you can give Swim some great answers to the questions he asked it would be really appreciated, also think this would answe some questions that people mite run across in the future or have allways have wondered. Thank You to everyone who responds @ OPIOPHILE.ORG:)

Papa Verine
11-08-2007, 11:36 AM
I don't have answers to all your questions but I absolutely agree that if all the "dope" is completely soluable in cold water, there's no reason to cook it. If the dope dissolves you can just suck it up and shoot it cold. No heat required.

chopstix
11-08-2007, 12:36 PM
Yeah, but you don't know where that stuff has been. Just 'cause it looks clean, doesn't mean that it is. Just a little bit of heat, enough to get it just under a boil will help kill bacteria on the spoon, in the dope and the cotton and it won't degrade your dope significantly. The first thing they do to the opium is boil it, a little more heat won't hurt it.. It's not mandatory but it's a good idea..

I don't know about the rest of your questions, honestly, I'm not even sure that's a language I recognize..

rachamim18
11-08-2007, 01:39 PM
I hate to be the proverbial stick in the mud but rocks mean nothing in terms of quality.

Your questions:

I) "Injection style.": With #4 all you need to do is add water, 1CC per 100 mgs. on average, no heat, perhaps agitate abit, filter and draw.

What do you mean "kill it with heat?" If you mean decompose the heroin, no need to worry. Heat is not neccessary. It is not for killing bacteria, because that brief heating will not stop anything. Heat is for dissolution, to help the material draw easier. Filtering is to net the contaminants.

If you want to be as safe as can be, purify your heroin. If that is not possible for whatever reason, get a micron or wheel filter (.4 is nest). It will give you a 33% advantage over cotton (cotton actually is pretty effective but it is always better to try and aim as high as possible, no pun intended).

II) "Adulterating (cutting)": The traditional American way is tried and true. Use an 80:20 admixture od lactose:quinine. Take 8 parts lactose, 2 quinine. If you have 2 grams of very good heroin, you might want to throw a gram on, if you want to ensure good quality (meaning repeat customers and high volume which in the long run (something most drug dealers and users never consider) you might just through .75 gram.

If you throw a gram, and you do not have scales,etc., just grind your rocks into fine powder with a talc consistency. Then , separately, take your lactose and make apile equal to one of your ground grams. Of the pile of lactose, remove 1/4th of it and save for another time. Then , while the lacotse is still next to the ground heroin for comparison, add quinine so that your lactose pile is now equal to the heroin.

Take the lactose and quinine and throughly mix. Once mixed well, combine with your ground gram of heroin and thoroughly mix IT. Once mixed, bag.

It sounds complicated but I wanted to put in every possible detail so that anyone could do it.

The word "Raw" is nonsense. It came into existence from Nicky Barnes. Barnes was selling 5 and 10 dollar glassines like everyone else in the early 80s NYC scene. He then introduced a new retail unit known as "Quarter Bags." These were 20 , and more usually 25 dollar bags which contained a "Spoon" (a retail cocaine unit of the era). To drum up word of mouth he began having his retail spots tell customers that they now had a choice of "Raw" (Quarters) or "Scramble" (Nickels and Dimes).

Today you rarely hear the terms outside of Baltimore (for some reason), where they also offer a choice in retail units at some spots. In reality thoguh, aside form the zie of the unit there is no great difference in purity.

"Antihistamines." Sorry, I cannot advise you to do that. It is a HR issue and it is not safe, even though it is very popular in Chicago. I would simply divide it into portions that would last the allotted time and just to maintain a consistency (easier said than done of course).


"Pins and Needles." That shows it is not "Raw," right? Pins and needles are the Histamine reaction peculiar to morphine. You do not get it with any other form, including heroin. Some believe it has to do with the lipid solubility or lack thereof in morphine, but noone knows for sure. Heroin is simply acetylysed morphine. Once ingested it degrades immediately into morphine. In alot of illict heroin acetylysation is FAR from perfect. When that happens, or when there is excessive moisture in the heroin it degrades before ingestion.

"Bubbling when cooking." NEVER heat it that much. For starters it is not neccessary, even with tar. Secondly, you are burning off your active product (i.e. heroin).apply just enough heat so that you see a whisp of vapour trail off your cooker. If Tar,etc., then use the plunger to agitate (or other similar implement).

Chicago
11-08-2007, 03:21 PM
Thank You, you were the exact person tha I wanted to read this post b/c I have been reading your responses for the last months and really say things the way they should be and your bio is my favorite saying "IT IS WHAT IT IS" you reach chem opiates so you no what your saying to agreat extent.
So what I no from some of the big dealers out hear in the chicago land area & they even tell me that they rather get powder raw then in them sticks, b/c them sticks have to be made some how right? Just like an 8ball of coke them 8balls if they are in a ball someone has to make into that ball from the powder just like turning the heroin from powder into the stick of 10grms usually they come.
So ok, since I got your attention I have some quick questions if you can take the time to answer them for me kindly, swim usually buys 1 gram @ a time and would use a spoon to make it into a fine powder, then put about 3 pills of sleepinal on there smash it up w/spoon again to mix both into a equal share and then let sit for about 15 minutes to let the pills absoarb into the heroin. When shaking more then three grams I would use a blender to make into a fine powder w/pills,let sit then use.NOW REMEMBER THIS IS ALL PERSONAL USE TO LAST ME A WEEK I HOPE.
Can you tell me where I would be able to go purchase quainine or an idea where to get it otc is there another name for this or just quanine, and why quanine b/c I saw a post that you said that it would not make it more potent. What I did was go buy a box of 36 pills of sleepinal to put 3 pills per gram so 6 total b/c this is for me. My bitch puts 5 pills"sllepinal" per gram on this exact dope & its strong, so I made sure I got this exact same batch. I have mentioned in a post before b/c I knew a guy who use to get keys and would tell me buy the time he would get a raw key it was already made into about 10-20 more keys b4 him and he was running big tips in some west side and south side places well known but now doing fed time, am I right on key w/this.Said when it leaves the gates as a pure key it probally gets turned into 5keys then when gets to the main place which I think istanbul or some where near they take a key & make another few then gets pushed to another place & do the same b4 it hits the states "these days".
Ok last thing isn't 2 grams a little pushing it by putting it into the blender and easier to to by spoon so don't lose any, b/c I remember after putting 2 in the blender when I was just by grams for personal use, I gotta put 2 baggies over the top of the blender so no pwder gets out then get a tooth brush and brush out all the little left over stuff in the blender it would be just a little powder but after a good brush it would come out to atleast 2 good bags "PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE THIS NO WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT".So basicly if it's just for me can't I be ok w/my regular routine with a spoon to grind then letthe pills sit & absoarb on there and shoot. But hey you said only cook till I see a few bubbles not to cook it till its bubbling like crazy?b/c I would allways cook it till it bubbled crazy and could not see any cut, so I was killing some of the heroin? Should just stick w/sleepinal or why and how do I get quanine, I thought u said it does nothing. Thanks RACHAMIN18 & ANY ONE WHO CAN ADD:rolleyes:



I hate to be the proverbial stick in the mud but rocks mean nothing in terms of quality.

Your questions:

I) "Injection style.": With #4 all you need to do is add water, 1CC per 100 mgs. on average, no heat, perhaps agitate abit, filter and draw.

What do you mean "kill it with heat?" If you mean decompose the heroin, no need to worry. Heat is not neccessary. It is not for killing bacteria, because that brief heating will not stop anything. Heat is for dissolution, to help the material draw easier. Filtering is to net the contaminants.

If you want to be as safe as can be, purify your heroin. If that is not possible for whatever reason, get a micron or wheel filter (.4 is nest). It will give you a 33% advantage over cotton (cotton actually is pretty effective but it is always better to try and aim as high as possible, no pun intended).

II) "Adulterating (cutting)": The traditional American way is tried and true. Use an 80:20 admixture od lactose:quinine. Take 8 parts lactose, 2 quinine. If you have 2 grams of very good heroin, you might want to throw a gram on, if you want to ensure good quality (meaning repeat customers and high volume which in the long run (something most drug dealers and users never consider) you might just through .75 gram.

If you throw a gram, and you do not have scales,etc., just grind your rocks into fine powder with a talc consistency. Then , separately, take your lactose and make apile equal to one of your ground grams. Of the pile of lactose, remove 1/4th of it and save for another time. Then , while the lacotse is still next to the ground heroin for comparison, add quinine so that your lactose pile is now equal to the heroin.

Take the lactose and quinine and throughly mix. Once mixed well, combine with your ground gram of heroin and thoroughly mix IT. Once mixed, bag.

It sounds complicated but I wanted to put in every possible detail so that anyone could do it.

The word "Raw" is nonsense. It came into existence from Nicky Barnes. Barnes was selling 5 and 10 dollar glassines like everyone else in the early 80s NYC scene. He then introduced a new retail unit known as "Quarter Bags." These were 20 , and more usually 25 dollar bags which contained a "Spoon" (a retail cocaine unit of the era). To drum up word of mouth he began having his retail spots tell customers that they now had a choice of "Raw" (Quarters) or "Scramble" (Nickels and Dimes).

Today you rarely hear the terms outside of Baltimore (for some reason), where they also offer a choice in retail units at some spots. In reality thoguh, aside form the zie of the unit there is no great difference in purity.

"Antihistamines." Sorry, I cannot advise you to do that. It is a HR issue and it is not safe, even though it is very popular in Chicago. I would simply divide it into portions that would last the allotted time and just to maintain a consistency (easier said than done of course).


"Pins and Needles." That shows it is not "Raw," right? Pins and needles are the Histamine reaction peculiar to morphine. You do not get it with any other form, including heroin. Some believe it has to do with the lipid solubility or lack thereof in morphine, but noone knows for sure. Heroin is simply acetylysed morphine. Once ingested it degrades immediately into morphine. In alot of illict heroin acetylysation is FAR from perfect. When that happens, or when there is excessive moisture in the heroin it degrades before ingestion.

"Bubbling when cooking." NEVER heat it that much. For starters it is not neccessary, even with tar. Secondly, you are burning off your active product (i.e. heroin).apply just enough heat so that you see a whisp of vapour trail off your cooker. If Tar,etc., then use the plunger to agitate (or other similar implement).

Chicago
11-08-2007, 03:31 PM
[quote=rachamim18;189088]



Your questions:



I) "Injection style.": With #4 all you need to do is add water, 1CC per 100 mgs. on average, no heat, perhaps agitate abit, filter and draw.
What do you mean agitate abit? If I do bags I use a .20 of a cc per bag per se.





If you want to be as safe as can be, purify your heroin. If that is not possible for whatever reason, get a micron or wheel filter (.4 is nest). It will give you a 33% advantage over cotton (cotton actually is pretty effective but it is always better to try and aim as high as possible, no pun intended).
Where can you get one of those micron or wheel filters, I just use a cutip and roll it into a tight little ball for 15yrs & worked well or just use the cottons that they give you @ the needle exchange.





Take the lactose and quinine and throughly mix. Once mixed well, combine with your ground gram of heroin and thoroughly mix IT. Once mixed, bag.
This for my own personal use to last me a week while on vacation in ATL. Why quinine, can't just use the regualr chicago style cut which is dorms"Dormin" or which I just bought 36 pills of sleepinal for 6buks?







"Antihistamines." Sorry, I cannot advise you to do that. It is a HR issue and it is not safe, even though it is very popular in Chicago. I would simply divide it into portions that would last the allotted time and just to maintain a consistency (easier said than done of course).
What do you mean, if for personal use I'm not dividing the dope, but the Antihistamines is worrying me, is sleepinal that or what did I misunderstand?





"Pins and Needles." That shows it is not "Raw," right? Pins and needles are the Histamine reaction peculiar to morphine.
I only get this when I do a large amount of what seems to be raw, or if I would i.v. about 10 bags at once back in the day.



"Bubbling when cooking." NEVER heat it that much. For starters it is not neccessary, even with tar. Secondly, you are burning off your active product (i.e. heroin).apply just enough heat so that you see a whisp of vapour trail off your cooker. If Tar,etc., then use the plunger to agitate (or other similar implement).
Can you really be in detail on this b/c the last thing I want to do is weaken my heroin, this is regualr white heroin from chicago got it from them Nigerians, so what I got is to cook it till I get a few bubbles then filter, but never bubble the fu*k out of it b/c I use to do it both ways bubble till cooked off the cut other times just warmed it up & poof cllean & cut was gone but did not never notice difference. I should of asked it this way b4 my last post b/c I'm asking exactly what I need to no and I'm starting to do my cut in 30mins if it no bother to help me out, and about the quinine?

chopstix
11-08-2007, 03:53 PM
Anyone who doesn't cook tar is begging for an infection, I get the feeling you haven't done much heroin in the western US. You should see the cottons they hand out at the exchange, they're about the size of a .177 caliber BB, those things barely filter visible particulate and I'm quite sure very few street junkies know what a wheel filter is. I've been using in western metro areas since 1988 (SEA, SF, LA) and I've never seen one in person..

It takes me, on average, probably a solid 2-3 minutes of repeated applications of heat and stirring to get a half G to dissolve. You'd be there all morning if you didn't boil the shit and it doesn't significantly degrade the quality, hell, most of the mexicans around here smoke the shit anyway..

I realize none of this applies to the OP..

Chicago
11-08-2007, 04:39 PM
I did tar only daily for a month buying 50 pieces, what I did was let the tin get warm and let the tar shake around then see it start getting smaller then put the flaim on there again repeat process 3-4 times I heard never to let the flame sit under the tar like we do under the white dope, funny thing was I really ran out of veins in the summer when my lady was locked up and she use to hit me behind my knee cap so I was going into my foot on the top part not side veins but top, so months go buy & now I have all these brown spots on my feet like like its dirt but it came in the foot that I was shooting the tar, the only reason I was getting tar was b/c my neibor went to cali picked up a few elbo's and brought it back so all I had to do is walk across the street, saved me 30-45min to get back & forth plus I never did it b4 this summer, 1rst time in 15yrs, some times I was fucked up rest I was like so so, but it made my other lady puke every 10mins lol, does it do that to people I never puked on it but she did, but she only did white b4, hear in chi we got tar in one part of town , then we got mex brown what I call it just like white but dark brown fine powder,ur habit doubles each time u do it more like a drunk high, then cheiva which is like an oxy for me u gotta no peope to get that but why even look for it, but that china whit WOW, NEVER TRIED HEROIN LIKE THAT IN 15YRS THATS WHY 15yrs aga b4 i started to i.v. heroin,I said after I snorted my 1rst bag I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life, damm 15yrs str8 now,saying gonna quit for 15yrs as well.but why tar turn my foot into brown spots?


Anyone who doesn't cook tar is begging for an infection, I get the feeling you haven't done much heroin in the western US. You should see the cottons they hand out at the exchange, they're about the size of a .177 caliber BB, those things barely filter visible particulate and I'm quite sure very few street junkies know what a wheel filter is. I've been using in western metro areas since 1988 (SEA, SF, LA) and I've never seen one in person..

It takes me, on average, probably a solid 2-3 minutes of repeated applications of heat and stirring to get a half G to dissolve. You'd be there all morning if you didn't boil the shit and it doesn't significantly degrade the quality, hell, most of the mexicans around here smoke the shit anyway..

I realize none of this applies to the OP..

chopstix
11-08-2007, 04:54 PM
but why tar turn my foot into brown spots?

Probably because those fuckers cut it with something that tattooed your skin. My girlfriend has dark, permanent tracks on her arm from the shoe polish some were using to cut the dope with here in the late 90s. The fucking mexicans that move and sell the shit are ruthless and don't care, most of the people they know/care about that use smoke the shit anyway, not that smoking shoe polish is much better than shooting it..

They truly don't give a fuck, they smuggle the shit in live animals and they stab each other left and right. Be grateful you have access to SEA/SA dope..

Oh, and nausea: I've had chiva that made me nauseous after years of not ever being even slightly queasy from opiates, I've puked maybe 3 times in my life from dope and all in the first couple years. I was getting some "salt and pepper" brown powder in LA ~93 that would make me queasy, I'm sure it was something about the cut in that stuff..

Tar heroin is also much less pure than SEA/SA dope, could also be some impurity causing your girl to get sick..

Chicago
11-08-2007, 05:19 PM
i read some place dude use to test his tar in a test tube and he would find all these particles like glass, real mud,rocks off the ground in his tar, but if you would shoot it , prob filter but thats some crazy shit he would find he said he was buying in elbo's. So thats why you think I got all these brown spots on the top of my right foot, b/c it started happening and popping up a monthe after I stopped the tar and still came for a few more months hmmm?


Probably because those fuckers cut it with something that tattooed your skin. My girlfriend has dark, permanent tracks on her arm from the shoe polish some were using to cut the dope with here in the late 90s. The fucking mexicans that move and sell the shit are ruthless and don't care, most of the people they know/care about that use smoke the shit anyway, not that smoking shoe polish is much better than shooting it..

They truly don't give a fuck, they smuggle the shit in live animals and they stab each other left and right. Be grateful you have access to SEA/SA dope..

Oh, and nausea: I've had chiva that made me nauseous after years of not ever being even slightly queasy from opiates, I've puked maybe 3 times in my life from dope and all in the first couple years. I was getting some "salt and pepper" brown powder in LA ~93 that would make me queasy, I'm sure it was something about the cut in that stuff..

Tar heroin is also much less pure than SEA/SA dope, could also be some impurity causing your girl to get sick..

Dr. Oxy
11-08-2007, 05:26 PM
Actually heating does kill bacteria as well as viruses in your dope. Please heat, at least briefly.

blackdog
11-08-2007, 06:02 PM
wow wow wow............wow
did i say wow?
um uh yeah
also i say to live and learn is to have had and not lost but to earn what is not easy to lose but come bye so infrequently and haveing no regrets makes one glad to say that it aint easy being so close,
yet so far ahead,away...... yonder thru the clouds that fog ones judgement.
what can i say but two's a party threes a cloud
so what else is there to say?
i wonder wonder whom bud doom doom who, who wrote the book on love?
well it's like life and so make it a mystery and leave this chapter out.
any questions???????
da/dawgg,
p.s. no hot heat onda spoon/cooker just extreme warmth
oh man i would feel the heat enter my arms and travel up along my arm yummmmmm
(happiness is a warm gun)bang-bang,shoot-shoot
sometimes it so easy i would dump a bag or two in the barrel add water from a fire hydrant shake and then bake baby. ah thoise was dere daze my friends we thought theyed never end....
now it's 5-7 bags per fix gotta use a cooker fer sure
what was the question?
questions:rolleyes:

chopstix
11-08-2007, 06:34 PM
i read some place dude use to test his tar in a test tube and he would find all these particles like glass, real mud,rocks off the ground in his tar, but if you would shoot it , prob filter but thats some crazy shit he would find he said he was buying in elbo's.


Yeah, I heard a report on a piece of dope once that had glass, newspaper pulp and phenobarb in it, this was in Seattle in the early 90s. I had a piece a few days ago that had a small pebble in it, fuckers, they're constantly stashing it in the dirt here though and most of the dealers are homeless and dirty.

Rach will return argument claiming that heating/boiling degrades dope (BS - not to any significant extent) and that most organisms are filtered out through cotton or the magical mysterious wheel filters and not killed by small applications of heat anyway, a pretty general statement considering how many different types of bacteria there are out there. The problem with filtering heroin through a piece of cotton in a spoon, like %99 percent of junkies do, is that it's far from perfect and impossible to guarantee efficiency, most people use tiny little pieces which makes it easy to puncture the cotton or draw liquid that hasn't been filtered. Everything you can do to minimize risk of infection is worth it, my understanding of Endocarditis is that it isn't a lot of fun..

phrozen
11-08-2007, 06:44 PM
Heating it does kill bacteria and viruses. Heat, above 100C does degrade heroin. But, most users stop applying heat after a few bubbles start forming. That will not cause any noticeable degredation. If you dont' believe me, try it yourself. Shoot a cold shot, then try a heated shot. Of course your dose and tolerance should be taken into account.

blo0mz
11-09-2007, 02:41 AM
Is it bad that I've been using 40 units for 50-100mg?

Chicago
11-09-2007, 05:02 AM
You use 5-10 bags and only use 40 units of water, if that is white heroin it's nearly impossible to get 10 bags into a 1/2cc. I would get south side chicago dope and the bags were poppen out the bag about the size of 3west side bags or just 3bags in general, like I said what I read at one of the first meth clinics was your suppose to use .20cc per bag.2 south side bags is all that can fit in that 1cc but yes that good.

@chopstixx, Alot of times I heard they weigh that tar down with to make it heavier w/some of that shit we mentioned, I only did tar for a little bit, daily for I think a month or more, but white powder long time, in my tar it was always cool, no junk, but that was from a private dealer who was selling to people who would have killed him if he would of sold junk or tried to weigh it down.



Is it bad that I've been using 40 units for 50-100mg?


u u

blo0mz
11-09-2007, 08:53 AM
Uh, not quite. 100mg is 1 bag. Not 10.

Papa Verine
11-09-2007, 10:21 AM
wow wow wow............wow
did i say wow?
um uh yeah
also i say to live and learn is to have had and not lost but to earn what is not easy to lose but come bye so infrequently and haveing no regrets makes one glad to say that it aint easy being so close,
yet so far ahead,away...... yonder thru the clouds that fog ones judgement.
what can i say but two's a party threes a cloud
so what else is there to say?
i wonder wonder whom bud doom doom who, who wrote the book on love?
well it's like life and so make it a mystery and leave this chapter out.
any questions???????
da/dawgg,
p.s. no hot heat onda spoon/cooker just extreme warmth
oh man i would feel the heat enter my arms and travel up along my arm yummmmmm
(happiness is a warm gun)bang-bang,shoot-shoot
sometimes it so easy i would dump a bag or two in the barrel add water from a fire hydrant shake and then bake baby. ah thoise was dere daze my friends we thought theyed never end....
now it's 5-7 bags per fix gotta use a cooker fer sure
what was the question?
questions:rolleyes:

Uh... wud you say dog???

nick
11-09-2007, 10:25 AM
Uh... wud you say dog???

I think he said that he was stoned-again.

Chicago
11-09-2007, 11:04 AM
Not to familier w/the weight of an indivual bag just no by looking at it, so like I was saying in one of those state funded mmt clinics I was in back in '97 we had a meeting that you had to stay at & listen probally b/c we only had to pay 5buks a week to be in this mmt program or go to 4 outside the clinic and get it signed it off on & it was there sheet, any how the nurse/Dr. who ran this particular meeting was saying that in the dope we use in chicago we should be using .20cc of water per bag, I still put about .70cc on 3bags b/c all bags cook differently & it could cook up thick & some fine so .70cc or .80cc on 4-bags is allways what I did. What is a bag of $10 white suppose to weigh because they all differ some be smaller but stronger and other huge and weak or strong, only use weighing for when I would get 1/2 grm or more. Do you guys weigh your bags indivdually? b/c if it from the same connect at the same time they all the same size b/c in chicago, back in the day if you remember Mc Donalds use to give you these tine little spoons for your coffee, well they have not had those for atleast 15yrs over hear, so those spoons would go for like 50buks but the metal ones b/c when I use to bag shit up for my buddy he had to sizes spoons and when putting into the foil I would give 1 big spoon & another half the size so 2 spoon fulls was how they make or measure the bags so they all equal in size.


Uh, not quite. 100mg is 1 bag. Not 10.

phrozen
11-09-2007, 04:59 PM
No, 40 units may even be considered too much by some oldhead junkies.

I discussed this with some long term street junkies once and they said they only use 20units, if not less, per 100mg.

I always used no less than 30units. If I'm just shootin' one bag, I'll dissolve it in about 20-30 units, filter it, then draw up another 10 or so units to cool it down quicker.

chopstix
11-09-2007, 05:15 PM
Most harm reduction literature I've read states the more water, the better. Better for your veins and better if you miss.. I never use less than 60-70 units on any amount of H.

Chicago
11-09-2007, 05:46 PM
Ok so if 100mg is 1 bag it says .20cc. every bag they said is 20th of 1cc, would be the right way on white,but we all have are own right way. When I did tar I would use about a whole 1cc & allways ended up w/if lucky .50cc if lucky, why does that happen w/tar.
@Rachamin18 or anyone what do you guys mean by heroin #2,#3,#4, all I no is white dope, tar,brown powder alot diff feeling then white & one time a got this dope called KARACHIE, I picked up 2 grms about '92 it cooked into a gel then the dude told me to use lemmon juice to thin it up, so it then only sucked up .10cc out of 5 bags I made from the raw, but when I ended up shooting this I thought I was gonna die, a pain in the back of my head that made it pulseight and if I moved it made me throw up, 3hrs I sat still in tears thinking this pain will never go away, I called the hsptl explaining all the pains but not that I shot dope. I heard later in the future that KARACHIE is a synthetic form of heroin, any1 no about this kind of dope, when I gave a few freinds a bumb to snort even telling them what I went threw, so it would not happen to them, they got high as hell by snorting it.
There was a faze 14-15yrs ago when I 1rst shot dope that use a little lemon juice in water to increase the high or rush, but this was white dope, never noticed a difference w/or w/out the juice?



No, 40 units may even be considered too much by some oldhead junkies.

I discussed this with some long term street junkies once and they said they only use 20units, if not less, per 100mg.

I always used no less than 30units. If I'm just shootin' one bag, I'll dissolve it in about 20-30 units, filter it, then draw up another 10 or so units to cool it down quicker.

rachamim18
11-10-2007, 02:14 AM
Well, I have never been to Chicago so certainly cannot comment on how they make things,etc. However, to rock something's simple. Either use a hydraulic press, or spray it with one of several chemicals that facilitate the process without damaging the active substance.

People always assume a rock is more pure but that is just a mindgame.

As for blenders,etc. ALl you have to do use a hand operated spice grinder. It is much better, less wasteful and more exact as far as consistency.

As far as asulteration ebfore you get it, it depends on the source really. Asian heroin, especially in SE but to a large degree the whole continent, very rarely is adulerated before it reaches the West. you can but heroin 98% (very rare for that high a number, usually 90 to 94) pure heroin, 10dollars a half gram rock as is in PP in Cambodia, 20 in BK although in BK it is sometimes stepped on at that low quantity (straws almost always are), vials rarely).

Chopstix: I have never even been to California except transiting airports to Asia,etc. I have done Tar though as it is available freely in Tamp, Florida. I am also well aware of the clinical background,etc. Yes, it is unique in that it is susceptible to all kinds of interesting nonsense like Staph and Botulism, to skin eating bugs, and so on. Heating though does not really kill it. See, prolonged boiling surely would but boiling for anything more than c ouple of seconds destroys your motrphine as well, and would probably vapourise a baloon of Tar.

The best thing, IF you must do Tar, is to purify it. It is actually very easy to purify it much more than classic hcl. Purify, micronfilter it, twice is good with 2 ilters, and then you eliminate a good deal of that risk...but never neagate all of it

It DOES heat to dissolve but am sure I said that. Boiling though is never good. PErsonally, if I was working with ir, i would dissolve it over a water bath, rough filter it and take it from there. No need to boil to dissolve, just patience and agitation.

"Heat does not degrade morphine (which is what heroin basically is)." It sure does but it takes prolonged and concentrated heat, the kind in boiling.


"Heating kills bacteria." Not the way junkies use it.Applying a maych to a spoon and waiting for a couple of bubbles is a mindgame. It is mostly used for dissolution.

"Mysterious wheel filters." Mysterious is a sad word when it relates to soemthing any smart user should have and use.

Fact is, cotton is said (by clinical investigation) to remove approximately 33% of all contamiannts while wheel and microns remove at least 68.

The BEST thing to be done is tot ake 10 minutes and purify your heroin.

jonny-5
11-10-2007, 02:27 AM
heating your dope will not hurt it at all, diacetlymorphine breaks down at a much higher temperature than you could possibly get it with a lighter under a spoon. something like four hundred something degrees F. you dont have to worry there. but like was said previously, if it all dissolves in water, theres no need to heat it. listen to rachamim he knows his shit.

grant123
11-10-2007, 02:58 AM
ok this may be a little off topic, but a question about tar in general to the users that may have an answer.I have heard people say that the less water you use, the more 'potent' your shot is. meaning if you cook up .1 gram of tar and use 1cc water, compared to .1 with 1/4cc water, the small amoutn of water is more conentrate, therefore getting you higher? sounds like bullshit to me. the dope is dope, water just helps get it into your body, yeah?another thing, the tar here in oregon you HAVE to heat to a near boil and sometimes stir, and usually repeat the heat/stop/heat/stop process so you dont have a raging boil. but i noticed that when i cook up a hot shot the liquid in the rig looks light to dark brownish. now if i let it sit and cool, there are all kinds of chunks in the liquid in the rig. this cant be good for yah eh? so my solution to that was after dissolving in cooker, ad small amount of cold water to cooker then draw up.

jonny-5
11-10-2007, 03:02 AM
ok this may be a little off topic, but a question about tar in general to the users that may have an answer.I have heard people say that the less water you use, the more 'potent' your shot is. meaning if you cook up .1 gram of tar and use 1cc water, compared to .1 with 1/4cc water, the small amoutn of water is more conentrate, therefore getting you higher? sounds like bullshit to me. the dope is dope, water just helps get it into your body, yeah?another thing, the tar here in oregon you HAVE to heat to a near boil and sometimes stir, and usually repeat the heat/stop/heat/stop process so you dont have a raging boil. but i noticed that when i cook up a hot shot the liquid in the rig looks light to dark brownish. now if i let it sit and cool, there are all kinds of chunks in the liquid in the rig. this cant be good for yah eh? so my solution to that was after dissolving in cooker, ad small amount of cold water to cooker then draw up.

well, technically the amount of water shouldnt matter at all. but it seems to me that when i use MORE water it seems stronger. especially when IMing.

odd
11-11-2007, 01:14 AM
1. Stick to the arms & legs for the SWIM's that I know.

2. B-12, give the injector a little love, plus it's safe.

3. SWIM don't bubble, heat 'till it's soft (mexican tar) and stir until dissolved.

rachamim18
11-11-2007, 06:33 PM
Grant: Usually people are wrong, as they are in the info you were given. It is a mind game. If you are injecting 100% of a dosage into your veins that has almost 100 bioavailability, how would the amount of water effect potency? It is nonsense. I remember junkies telling me that same thing over and over, but most junkies could could not even explain acetylysation to you,etc.

hydrocodonious
11-12-2007, 10:04 AM
The BEST thing to be done is tot ake 10 minutes and purify your heroin.

Hey Rach how would someone go about purifying their tar/heroin? PM me if you need too.

rachamim18
11-13-2007, 10:43 PM
Hydro: Tar is very easy, well the first part which helps a whole lot because Tar is so nasty. Alot of people rely on Heroin Helper nonsense which does not even make sense if you understand basic chemistry. For the methods, please use the Search Engine both here (I posted it in my first 2 or 3 months on the site which was in 2004 or 5. I also have posted both many times on BL. IF you cannot find them after a bit I will post again.

chopstix
11-18-2007, 02:12 PM
Chopstix: I have never even been to California except transiting airports to Asia,etc. I have done Tar though as it is available freely in Tamp, Florida. I am also well aware of the clinical background,etc. Yes, it is unique in that it is susceptible to all kinds of interesting nonsense like Staph and Botulism, to skin eating bugs, and so on. Heating though does not really kill it. See, prolonged boiling surely would but boiling for anything more than c ouple of seconds destroys your motrphine as well, and would probably vapourise a baloon of Tar.

Umm, staph and botulism ARE NOT nonsense, this is EXACTLY my point and I don't believe that you can say that boiling these organisms makes them happy, I understand your point about duration but it's not as black and white as you imply.

This is off topic to the OP I know, this applies to tar. I still think it's safe and wise to apply heat to powder but I can see why a lot of people don't and I would do it without heat if I didn't have a lighter or match.

I'm glad you agree that tar is a bit different and a special case in the IV drug realm with its tendency to remain packaged gooey and moist for long periods, obviously this opens up all kinds of doors for bacteria and organisms to grow - a warm, gooey mass is begging for all kinds of organism contamination and culture.

It takes .2 micron filters to remove the smallest bacteria, there's no way you can guarantee that degree of filtration with cotton. Like I said earlier, I spend 2-3+ minutes dissolving .5g tar by repeated applications of heating to bubble and then stirring, during that process the temp of the solution never drops below maybe 90C and I do bubble it for a few seconds at a time, I refuse to believe that process won't kill at least some of the microorganisms that were happily nodding in my dope and I've been doing this long enough to be quite certain that I'm not boiling off any significant amount morphine. Again, they boil the shit when they make it and smokers cook it on tinfoil. A few bubbles aren't going to hurt your dope and in my opinion anything you can do to help sterilize anything that passes through the filter is worthwhile.



"Heat does not degrade morphine (which is what heroin basically is)." It sure does but it takes prolonged and concentrated heat, the kind in boiling.

"Prolonged and concentrated" being the key words.



"Heating kills bacteria." Not the way junkies use it.Applying a maych to a spoon and waiting for a couple of bubbles is a mindgame. It is mostly used for dissolution.

You can't possibly say the above with %100 certainty. There are probably hundreds of thousands of possible organic contaminants in tar heroin and they all have different properties. Your statement is too general.



"Mysterious wheel filters." Mysterious is a sad word when it relates to soemthing any smart user should have and use.

I'm a smart user and I've never seen one in person, it's not about intelligence, it's about availability and knowledge. Next time you're in the states, walk into the ghetto and ask a junkie if (s)he's heard of a "wheel filter." Did you use them when you were copping on the street in NY? Most junkies don't use the internet regularly and wheel filters are not provided in any needle exchange I've ever been in. At this point, I don't even know where you can buy them, obviously they're available on the Internet but what about pharmacies or vets? Where can you get them?? Any west coast junkies ever seen a wheel filter in an exchange? I'd be curious as to where..



Fact is, cotton is said (by clinical investigation) to remove approximately 33% of all contamiannts while wheel and microns remove at least 68.

And there you go. That gooey piece of tar you just stuck to the spoon is a little black petri dish, it's quite possible it came across the Mexican border in somethings' asshole or intestinal tract and has since been handled by many, many dirty fingers and likely stored for weeks or months wrapped in plastic in warm, SW US climates probably growing all kinds of shit, I mean who wouldn't wanna take up residence on a huge piece of heroin! It's a microbe's paradise!!

Boil your tar and use big cottons (or "wheel filters") folks - it's nasty, nasty stuff. There's a rumor here where I live that people have incurable internal chicken mites in their skin from heroin. My GF was in program and in jail and has seen the scabs and sores of people making this claim. I have my doubts about the validity but I also have witnesses. I promise you that a few bubbles will not:
vapourise a baloon of Tar or anywhere near it, I boil my shit all the time and in over 15 years of IV tar I have never had an abscess or any type of infection related to shooting H, that includes two years of being homeless and *dirty* on the streets of Seattle and San Francisco and I rarely use alcohol wipes.

Rachamim: I'm not interested in, nor trying to provoke an extended debate with you. Obviously you're welcome to counter but this will probably be my last post in this thread, I just wanted to throw out my $.02 and my experience. Honestly, I think your lack of experience with west coast dope affects your perspective and opinions on this.

mollywopped
11-18-2007, 04:05 PM
If it is completely soluble in water, there is no need to heat it, although doing so will kill some bacteria and won't hurt the dope. Also, there is no need to cut it if it is pure and you are keeping it for yourself. The only reason it is cut is to increas weight for sales. If it is just for you, just use tiny bits and you will get the same high as if you were using more dope that had been cut. If you were to sell it, then cut it. When people cut it it is to make more. If you have 1 gram and mix it with some cut 50/50 you now have 2 grams and so on, that is why it is cut. But, if it is just for you, no need to cut it, it just adds more shit to the mix that you don't need in your body.

TokinDerrick
11-19-2007, 11:54 AM
some people do actually enjoy mixed dope (mixed with benadryl as it creates a little rush) rather than straight raw.

toighttoiger
11-19-2007, 07:16 PM
i've heard of people shooting straight benadryl, anyone have info on this? it intrigues me.

TokinDerrick
11-20-2007, 12:21 PM
I've done it a bunch of times.

its probably not good, but you'll want to get either Dormin or the real brand name Benadryl, as most other diphenhydramine off-brands gel and you will not get it up the syringe.

you'll want 50mg to get a "rush" from it. so one dormin, or two benadryl. just do it like you'd cook up heroin.

I'm not condoning this as I don't know if its safe in the least bit. but I know it all boils down to a clear liquid.

Chicago
11-20-2007, 03:17 PM
Just 2 clue you in: If you did read the start of my post. I was saying that over here in chicago I cut my shit when I get raw would be w/dormin/dorms or Sleepinal. Today I picked up a raw half gram and wouldn't shake it up this time but what I did was put 1/4gram in my tin then sprinkle some sleepinal on there. In Chicago they cut the white dope w/everywhere 90% time dorms/sleepinal or if that cheap lactose. Sleepinal is the easiest thing to buy b/c it's sold on the shelf at any drug store,unlike dorms which is $15 for 100 pills & Sleepinal 32 pills for about 10 buks, but like I was saying Dorms are smaller pills better deal but harder to get b/c u CAN NOT WALK INTO ANY DRUG STORE & GRAB IT OFF THE SHELF & BRING IT TO THE COUNTER, but when I do buy it they sell it at gas stations/clothing stores/hair-salons not in public eye to see so these pple hide it behind the counter & do not sell it in white neiborhoods, black & hispanic hoods is where to buy it, where I live is a PRican hood I'm Cuban still have trouble buying it, so sllepinal is the easiest to get & sum1 pointed out it's the same meds so why?B/C EVERYONE NO IN CHICAGO THAT DORMS IS ONLY USED TO CUT HEROIN NOT TO SLEEP...TRUST ME ON THIS ONE.
As 4 Benedryl never would do that to my dope,WHY?but I heard pple to shoot or snort Benedryl when sick thinking they feel better. But what I found out on the cpu somewhere is that shooting str8 Benedryl can kill you,I AM PROBALLY %100 WRONG BUT THATS WHAT I READ LIKE 8YRS AGO THATS IT SO I LEFT IT ALONE.



I've done it a bunch of times.




its probably not good, but you'll want to get either Dormin or the real brand name Benadryl, as most other diphenhydramine off-brands gel and you will not get it up the syringe.


you'll want 50mg to get a "rush" from it. so one dormin, or two benadryl. just do it like you'd cook up heroin.


I'm not condoning this as I don't know if its safe in the least bit. but I know it all boils down to a clear liquid.

toighttoiger
11-20-2007, 04:15 PM
I've done it a bunch of times.

its probably not good, but you'll want to get either Dormin or the real brand name Benadryl, as most other diphenhydramine off-brands gel and you will not get it up the syringe.

you'll want 50mg to get a "rush" from it. so one dormin, or two benadryl. just do it like you'd cook up heroin.

I'm not condoning this as I don't know if its safe in the least bit. but I know it all boils down to a clear liquid.

hmm, what's the rush like?

TokinDerrick
11-21-2007, 10:49 AM
the inactive ingrediants in dormin or benadryl might be different, but the active ingrediants are the same. I never died from it. again, I'm not telling someone to go off and do it.

I don't really know how to describe the feeling. its just you're sitting there one minute feeling normal, and the next you get this different feeling. heh.

and yeah, you cannot find dormin around here, which is why I got benadryl.

TokinDerrick
11-21-2007, 10:50 AM
benadryl and dormin both have the same active ingrediant. they might have different inactive ingrediants in them though.

and I don't really know how to describe the rush, and I don't think anyone should try it based on what I'm saying.

Chicago
11-21-2007, 03:57 PM
2day swim picked up a half a gram of raw to last him for 2day & Thanksgiving Day, This shit is so much different then the 3-4grms swim got @ the begining of the thread, my point this raw heroin when put in the tin I suck up warm water in the dart & it starts to dissolve w/out even cooking it, but still put a lighter under it to make a bubble but really didn't need to. Wonder why swim really had to cook the others to a crazy boil & these basicly dissolve in warm water w/no cut at the bottom of the tin it was as the tin was cleaned w/this raw. Any Comments?:rolleyes: