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Mastermind
01-02-2006, 10:19 PM
D's guide to surviving junk sickness (Pharmacological symptomatic support with various drugs, vitimins/minerals/amino acids, and mental and spiritual conditioning)

Symptomatic treatment I: If you really want to kick, but you need some "help", you can "symptomatically" treat the sickness which means you take medication for individual problems. Being realistic, you can not "cure" yourself of the sickness, the only way to achieve that is A) Time or B) Alkaloids or Pharmaceuticals. These OTC medications are useful however, and will not extend the severe phase of kicking:

*Loperamide (Imodium) - can be bought OTC to effectively control acute diarrhea and abdominal cramps

*Aleve (Naproxen) - An OTC NSAID that will help with the dull aches and pain, as well as fever (2x daily)

*Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) - An OTC Anti-histimine/mild CNS depressant, alleviates lacrimation (eyes tearing up randomly), burning of the nose, sneezing, etc.

*Valerian Root (Herbal caps) - OTC herbal supplement that has GABA agonist effect and relieves anxiety and helps you feel more calm, OD is NOT advised; although if you are in an extreme acute insomnia bout; a Valerian capsule OD (~20-40 caps) should knock you out.

*Epsom salt- If one can possibly withstand taking a warm bath, liberally use Epsom salt throughout the bath and this helps to relax you, as well as clean all that dope sick grime off.

*Multi-vitimin- Self-explanatory basically, your body needs nutrients to produce neuropeptides, neurotransmitters, and maintain the actual neurons of the CNS/PNS.

*Magnesium supplements- Opioids deplete this among many things in the body...

*Calcium supplements- Opioids deplete calcium...also helps the nervous system

*Multi-amino acid supplement- Opioids disrupt neuropeptide & transmitter actions, multiple amino acids provide the "building blocks" to help your body build back up the endorphins, enkephelins, and dopamine it needs to function. (particularly Phenylalanine & Tyrosine are helpful)

*DLPA - (DL-Phenylalanine) - Amino acid supplement that acts as an enkephelin inhibitor; liberal dosing can shorten the overall amount of time sick. I consider this very beneficial. It does not have so much of an acute effect, but it really seems to reduce the time suffering severe symptoms, imho. Those that plan to completely abstain from opioids long-term - make this part of your treatment regimen.

Symptomatic treatment II:

Controlled substances that relieve some symptoms of narcotic abstinence syndrome-

Anxiolytics/Hypnotics

*Benzodiazipines. (preferrably 2 mg of Klonopin (clonazepam) or Xanax (alprazolam) 3x or more daily, or equivalent in other benzos...[Klonopin & Xanax are equal in potency. 10 mg Valium (diazepam) = 0.5 Klonopin or Xanax.]

*Ambien, Sonata, Lunesta- benzo-related GABA agonists that are used as hypnotics. Junk sick users will have to take a liberal dose- and/or augment a single dose with a benzo

Anti-histimine sedatives:

* Phenegran (Promethazine) - Sedative, anti-emetic (prevents nausea & vomiting)

* Vistaril or Atarax (Hydroxyzine) -Sedative, mild muscle relaxant, mild analgesic, anti-emetic)

Muscle Relaxants:

* Zanaflex - Acts similar to clonidine as well as traditional muscle relaxants (GABA agonist) * Soma (Carisoprodol) - Effective muscle relaxant. Helpful especially in synergy with a benzo.

* Flexeril (Cyclobenzaprine) - Long acting muscle relaxant, similar to Soma but less potent imo

Other Drugs:

*Catapres (Clonidine)- Acts directly on alpha-adrenergic receptors; ultimately reducing norepinephrine output and easing some of the symptoms of withdrawal.

*Remeron (Mirtazapine)- Tetracyclic antidepressant that has unique effects; very sedative

* "New anti-psychotic drugs" like Seroquel & Geodon have such complex pharmacology that they inevitably help junk sickness thru its (in the end, anyway) partial agonist/antagonist @ selective serotonin sites' mechanism, balancing out levels of dopamine, alpha-adrenergic properties similar to clonidine, and as a side effect they are sedating as well...(They also seem to cause moderate miosis as well- like high doses of the tetracyclic antidepressants [Mirtazapine, Nefazodone].)


1) Stay positive. No matter how excruciating the pain is, or how burning cold your feverish chills are, no matter how annoying symptoms like yawning and tears are, it is imperative to keep a positive attitude.

2) Drink as much fluids as possible. Limit caffeinated products if not stopping the use of caffeine and other stimulants completely!

3) Try to learn to control your breathing. Breathe fresh air - Inhale deeply through the nose, and if you have to, exhale through the mouth.

4) Meditate. It takes an INCREDIBLE amount of will and mental resilience to do this, but if you learn to control your breathing you will soon be able to achieve therapeutic meditation- and if you can do this while sick, if only for a few moments, you can make it!

5) Learn to "adapt to discomfort"...(Trust me, its somewhat possible, but takes a lot of time & willpower)...don't feel bad if you need to use some other drugs to do it. Just stay clear and focused on your goals for kicking & most importantly treating it.)

EZ and be safe y'all,
D

Mastermind
01-03-2006, 01:26 PM
bump...:)...I hope this is of some use to some people, I realize this *is* a site for "opiophiles" and so most of you will know the info I presented here...I wanted to help other members that just may not be aware of things like symptomatic treatment. I'd kind of like to make it a sticky and have other "veterans" of this junk to enter some more info along these lines. I may extend it, the above is my own writing, but it wasn't planned out, its just a rough draft I prepared for a friend...

Anyway, I pray that all of you that are kicking CT right now feel relief of your agony and discomfort (someway, somehow)...
Be EZ
D

GMorris
01-04-2006, 10:06 PM
* Phenegran (Promethazine) - Sedative, anti-emetic (prevents nausea & vomiting)
Sorry, that's Phenergan, and I would also recommend it...


*Remeron (Mirtazapine)- Tetracyclic antidepressant that has unique effects; very sedative

Sorry again, I WOULD NOT recommend this drug even if you can get it. I suffered severe withdrawal having taken this prior to getting the "script" the next
day in order to help with sleep. Twice I experienced a bad time with Remeron, but that's not to say that you won't. Proceed with caution..


1) Stay positive. No matter how excruciating the pain is, or how burning cold your feverish chills are, no matter how annoying symptoms like yawning and tears are, it is imperative to keep a positive attitude.

2) Drink as much fluids as possible. Limit caffeinated products if not stopping the use of caffeine and other stimulants completely!

3) Try to learn to control your breathing. Breathe fresh air - Inhale deeply through the nose, and if you have to, exhale through the mouth.

4) Meditate. It takes an INCREDIBLE amount of will and mental resilience to do this, but if you learn to control your breathing you will soon be able to achieve therapeutic meditation- and if you can do this while sick, if only for a few moments, you can make it!

5) Learn to "adapt to discomfort"...(Trust me, its somewhat possible, but takes a lot of time & willpower)...don't feel bad if you need to use some other drugs to do it. Just stay clear and focused on your goals for kicking & most importantly treating it.)

EZ and be safe y'all,
D

Yeah, the rest I pretty much agree with, and I've done it a few times myself. The Remeron is one that I personally found to be counter-productive to an opiate kick!

duke_nemmerle
01-05-2006, 11:31 AM
Hey thanks for this and the other post mastermind, meant to say it the other night when I first read them, but I had to run. I'll probably be back to this at some point in my life, in fact I'm sure of it :)

poppy
01-05-2006, 05:00 PM
Mastermind, this is fascinating, I've never thought about using over the counter drugs to help with withdrawals, but now you've pointed it out......it seems obvious that some of the withdrawal symptoms may be alleviated to some extent by the use of these drugs. Maybe if I'd had this information the first time I tried to do a rattle I would have succeeded. Its definitely food for thought especially for those trying to kick a relatively small, relatively new habit.

duke_nemmerle
01-05-2006, 07:14 PM
Mastermind, this is fascinating, I've never thought about using over the counter drugs to help with withdrawals, but now you've pointed it out......it seems obvious that some of the withdrawal symptoms may be alleviated to some extent by the use of these drugs. Maybe if I'd had this information the first time I tried to do a rattle I would have succeeded. Its definitely food for thought especially for those trying to kick a relatively small, relatively new habit.

Oh Poppy, another thing, do a forum search on Loperamide(Immodium) I was surprised to find out that it's an opiate too big for the brain-blood barrier, or somesuch. Amazing

JoyDivision
01-08-2006, 12:38 AM
I've never gone through H wd since I've never done H but I go through Oxy WD pretty much every script because I use too much.

Valium is a must. It's great for muscle spasms/cramps.

I've only ever used Xanax once. Never used Klonopin. But I've used Temazepam and Nitrazepam. Valium is still my favourite.

An alternative to this could be Kava Kava. It's legal and requires no prescription even in Oz (you just can't import it from overseas without an import license, but you can get it from Queensland search google for the kava hut). I bought 2kg of Kava ages ago and still have a little bit left.
Only problem with it is getting it down. Really taste like crap which isn't surprising since it's part of the pepper family.

Also. Other opies like (Dextro)-Propoxyphene HCl or Napsylate will help. Same as Tramadol and T4's , 3's, 2's and 1's. Nothing wrong with slow withdrawl with other less potent opiates they keep wd's at bay.

Amitryptyline is handy for sleep and pain. But only in some people with neuropathic pain. Guess this is the sort of drug for Chronic pain people with addiction problems. Which is where I fit in.

I used to think pot wd's were hard. They are fucking easy compared to opie ones!

Oh yeah.. And smoking pot wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Remember you're quitting a psychologically and physically addictive substance. Nothing wrong with substituting it for only psychologically addictive substances. And using other stuff will probably stop relapses.

Then again. Switching for H to Coke isn't a good idea. Think slow, think gradual.
The way I got off pot ages ago was to just smoke heaps of leaf and it worked.

I could go out and get some weed right now if I wanted it but I don't despite being in Oxy WD atm.

Buckshot
01-11-2006, 12:54 PM
Nice list I think it could be a major help for users here. But you forgot perhaps the most important trick of them all, and we can all do it.

Excercise....Even just a walk or a nice stretching session or push ups, but anything helps. This is in my opinion a very helpful method to get the "happy" chemicals in your brain flowing again fast.

Also the Immodium is a must if you have to go to a job where you cant take 10 shit breaks in a day. If you dont have Immodium on that evil day 3, DO NOT GO TO WORK, or you might just shit your pants.

Finally I'd like to add massage, sex even mastubation, and hot tubs or showers.

Buckshot
01-11-2006, 01:19 PM
I also had no idea that Benedryl reduced "tearing" I hate that symptom of WD. Looks like in literally crying my eyes out sitting at my desk at work. Ive had people ask me "Whats wrong?" and stuff. That is such a nice tip....Will other anti-histmaines work for tearing and burning nose? I actually have been using cortizone cream inside my nostrils when I have major WD.

Now we take Benedryl or generic with dope and when we stop dope....I have used it as a potentiator with some good results and it relieves itching and flushing of skin to boot!

OldBat
01-12-2006, 12:27 AM
Thanks so much for this list.

My roomie/dearest friend is now in the second day of withdrawal from h, and I feel better now that I am armed with all the OTC meds + kratom. I am not sure how to approach helping him through this, though. My own most recent withdrawal was over 20 years ago, and all of mine were done alone. He has withdrawn before, too, but as an inpatient or alone. We're sharing a 1-bedroom apartment, and neither of us can go anywhere else.

My real question is: What level of interaction is supportive, and when does it become annoying instead? Should I suggest things that might make him feel better or wait to be asked? Should I simply put favorite drinks/treats/distractions in front of him, or would that be intrusive?

I want him to know that I am here for whatever he needs, but I don't want him to think that my love/support/approval depend in any way on whether he uses or not. Too much cheerleading during withdrawal might imply that I'm unhappy with him when he's using, mightn't it? This is a sensitive issue because (1) I'm supporting him, (2) this is unlikely to be a long-term break (he's lost his job and can't afford his habit), and (3) his happiness is of paramount importance to me.

I would go through withdrawal for him if I could, horrible as it always was for me. If anyone who has withdrawn from a major habit can let me know what made him or her feel cared for and supported--but not controlled or criticized--please let me know. Many thanks in advance.

Mastermind
01-14-2006, 10:21 PM
You ladies & gentlemen are totally welcome! I'm very flattered & suprised by the good response to this! :)

It is essential knowledge for anyone with an opioid tolerance or dependence to know how to use certain non-narcotic drugs to alleviate symptoms... (Like how anti-histimines such as hydroxyzine & Benadryl can stop the "teary eyes" lacrimation effect that one suffers during WD.)

Although, I'm relatively new to the forum, I've been pretty much into the abyss thousands and times and I haven't let that 'death-dragon' (its not a monkey) get me yet! Just say 'know'...Learn what you can about pharmacology and neuropharmacology (how drugs interact with the nervous system)...Trust me, it helps knowing more about why you are experiencing symptoms.

Be safe & ez Y'all, and Thanks again for the pleasant response!
D

(It's also interesting I might add, that due to opioids in general stimulating some and depressing other areas of the CNS; when you go through WD some symptoms are signs of off-balance sympathetic function in the CNS, and others are signs of off-balance parasympathetic CNS functions...Google: "sympathetic nervous system" and "parasympathetic nervous system" if you want to try to find more info on this specifically...)

blackdog
03-05-2006, 10:14 PM
yes veddy, interesting.......products that one needs at trying times indeed:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

El Dave
03-04-2008, 11:46 AM
Yeah, the rest I pretty much agree with, and I've done it a few times myself. The Remeron is one that I personally found to be counter-productive to an opiate kick!

It took like seven years for me to repress 'nam in the seventies, and I was completely free of it for thirty years. The family made me go to the VA because they claim I need "medical coverage". The VA told me I'm "depressed" and prescribed Remeron (Mirtazapine). That stuff dug through thirty years of repression and brought it all back. I've not seen anyone else describe this effect. I'd still recommend caution if you've anything buried that you don't want to surface.

cracksinthepavement
03-10-2008, 02:04 AM
This is a very good list of potentially helpful drugs for withdrawal. Here is my personal kick recipe, which helps dramatically.

25grams kratom
8 grams loperamide
30 mg of canadian mersyndol (9mg codeine, doxylamine (which happens to be one of the OTC drugs that contributed to the death of heath ledger) and tylenol).
1mg clonazepam or flexiril if I have it OR the following:
4mg kaviar kava root with OTC doxylamine (this is surpisingly extremeley sedative and OTC). Find this in some sleep meds or in canada it is in mersyndol.

The mersyndol is mostly for leg cramps, the codeine doesnt do shit for me.

Drop the kratom by 2 grams daily till your done, drink lots of water, eat well if you can, treat your body well - its going to be in shock after being subdued by opiates.

trainwrecker
03-10-2008, 07:19 AM
This is good advice in general. But 20-40 valerian pills is not a wise idea. When you are dealing with herbs potency can very from pill to pill. Even just 20 valerian pills is quite excessive, see what 5 does to you and climb in 2-4 pill incriments if they aren't doing the trick...

Admiral Awesome
03-10-2008, 08:40 AM
This is a great guide, its helping me right now. Last night i could not sleep and i was hoping that if i took a few tylonel pm's that mabey it would help me sleep and forget the DT's if just for a few hours. BAD IDEA. It only served to make my "restless legs syndrom" worse and i did not get any sleep at all. This is just my opinion but i dont think that pm's help to alieve the discomfort or help to provide sleep. Just one day left.. just one day left.. (mantra)

reddragon3668
03-10-2008, 11:01 AM
I missed this the first time is was posted, so kudos to the person who bumped the thread. Great information! One thing I noticed, however, was that opiates reportedly deplete the body's calcium supply. If this is true, and I know this is a bit OT, but could this explain why junkies have such teeth trouble? Just a question.

red26
03-10-2008, 11:49 AM
Just so ya'll know- Seroquel has been linked to diabetise. Primarily type 2 but still is linked to type 1 as well. I have a lawsuit against the drug company that makes it for not testing it long enough and not providing the doctors with ALL the information on the drug. The lawyer that's handling my case also has close to 200 individule cases but now some are being lumped into a class action.

Theres commercials on T.V. about it, thats how I found out why I was diagnosed with type 1 last June.

Black_Pony
03-10-2008, 12:04 PM
'Learn to adapt to discomfort.'

I think every junky on the planet has adapted to living with discomfort. The only comfortable way out is a shotgun to the face.

Here's Black Pony's guide to kicking dope painlessly:

1. Load shotgun
2. Suck on business end
3. Kick hard

I guess I'm just a hopeless cynic..

The whole loperamide/sleeping pill method works pretty good, too. Dont forget to stay hydrated!

limestoneman
09-16-2008, 09:22 AM
I'm going to bump this so that it can be seen by the people that need it.

Papa Verine
09-16-2008, 03:43 PM
I'd like to add something that helped me A LOT.

Scullcap extract (Scutellaria Lateriflora)

The last time I was kicking opiates and benzos, taking 5X the recommended dose of this herbal extract allowed me to feel pretty normal and sleep 6 hours every night. I had mild habits at the time, but I should've felt considerably uncomfortable, and I shouldn't have been sleeping so well.

I swear by the stuff... But you must get an extract. There are cheaper products that contain plant material, and they're not going to cut it. Go with the more expensive "Standardized Extract".

jimmyfingers
09-16-2008, 03:50 PM
hey papa v...where would I buy skullcap at? on the internet or can i find it at wal mart. and around how much do I need to spend to get decent stuff. im very interested in this stuff

Papa Verine
09-16-2008, 04:59 PM
hey papa v...where would I buy skullcap at? on the internet or can i find it at wal mart. and around how much do I need to spend to get decent stuff. im very interested in this stuff

I found it at one of the local health food stores. I've never seen it in the herbal section of Wal-mart or any place like that. Find a place that sells health foods and all the herbal supplements... I hope you have some place like that around.

jonny-5
09-16-2008, 05:04 PM
im pretty sure trader joes has it.

Indy
09-17-2008, 04:27 AM
Be warned, if you have a history of restless legs/arms, most antihistamine sedatives will amplify it in some people. Not saying it WILL, just start small and see.

blackdog
09-17-2008, 07:25 AM
Oh yeah,
I dig this thread
Only thing i haven't seen is mention of an entirely different addictive substance,
that being.......CHOCALATE....
NEVER MIND BETWEEN FIXES
but also on withdrawals
chocolate just eases the pain,the pain,the pain
or is it just my imagination?
peace,:cool:

limestoneman
09-18-2008, 09:05 AM
Oh yeah,
I dig this thread
Only thing i haven't seen is mention of an entirely different addictive substance,
that being.......CHOCALATE....
NEVER MIND BETWEEN FIXES
but also on withdrawals
chocolate just eases the pain,the pain,the pain
or is it just my imagination?
peace,:cool:

Chocolate is known to release endorphins.

Papa Verine
09-18-2008, 09:15 AM
Chocolate is known to release endorphins.

I always eat lota of chocolate when I'm W/Ding. Not so much sweet chocolate but more cocoa or dark chocolate. It helps but doesn't last long.

bored in sofl
09-30-2008, 10:07 PM
I heard 5-htp helps

blackdog
10-01-2008, 10:55 AM
CHOCOLATE:p

Duckfeet
10-01-2008, 12:30 PM
Only thing I guess I've learned, you know, aside from all the various detox plans and meds and stuff, is that I need to get my life in order, somewhat, too...I've found that when I *just* try to quit dope, and leave everything else spinning away...I never make it, cuz I have all the same problems, *plus* I'm kicking...and people have all kinds of ways to do this...my trouble is, that when I'm loaded, and feeling o.k., I tend to think: "Man, I need to get off dope, get my *life* in order...!" Trouble is, I'm not all that tough, and once withdrawals kick in, I tend to think: "Fuck all that: I'm getting loaded today!...*fuck* tomorrow!"

And I've never found a free lunch, not really, as far as "painfree withdrawals..." go. You always pay, one way or another...and it often seems that we pay a whole lot more than we expected...but of course that warm happy pleasure we get from dope is immediate, while getting one's life in order is slow, and often tedious...so I tend to always be split: I think of life "longterm", you know, 'gonna get the girl, live in Paris, write novels, sail around Cape Horn, blah blah blah...' but *shorterm*, I tend to want to feel better today, and all that other happy horseshit seems far away and stupid, and not so important when I'm feeling blue, and "feeling better" is just a short hop and fifty bucks away...

So best wishes to all: those doing dope, and those fleeing from it...

df, 12mg daily mdone...

pain-patient
10-01-2008, 12:42 PM
Quite a handy list. A few thoughts:

If you know WD's -- either the quick. painful route, or the slower, less painful (though some say it's "death-by-a-thousand-cuts") taper route -- are imminent, I suggest a good trip with your favorite psychedelic, or if those aren't handy, a good phenethylamine (PEA's) like MDMA or 2-ci about a day before you begin; this is a great way to help start "resetting" neurotransmitter levels, helps you focus on goals at hand and makes you accepting of change [and that WD's are -- unpleasant change:mad:]. It's does not hurt at all to keep some PEA's around for acute discomfort, and they work great if you exercise vigorously on them (I think ya end up making more endogenous opi's this way). Another good thing to do if you have advance warning is to switch to the longest acting opiate you can get if you are tapering, but ONLY for the first bit of the taper. This helps break down the "psychological" components, i.e., the triggers that make some take pills and other smoke cigarettes.

Also, can't recommend pot enough, and if that's not cutting it, add in DXM, or for a real "RESET" button, some ketamine.


Oh, yeah, nitrous oxide is also real handy. But, wait, if you did all this, why quit drugs?:cool:

Best,

M