STAYING CLEAN?!

[Frank Zito]

1. How did you get clean?

2. How many times have you tried to clean up?

3. Why can't you STAY clean?

4. What would/will you do differently the next time you give it a shot?

Feel free to discuss anything else you have pertaining to this matter. I'm just curious as to what causes people to KEEP GOING BACK?

I've given it a couple REAL good efforts and I can't seem to keep the monkey from jumpin' back in the saddle. Shit gets discouraging. I usually don't stay clean for too long either. I am pretty sick of the self-imposed, sadistic, merry-go-round I keep jumping on and hurling myself off at top speed. I'm thinking I might outgrow it pretty soon. My problem is that I have no life skills. I spent a lot of time in and out of prison even though I'm 29. I have a hard time bein' responsible for myself. I mean, I pay my bills, have a lot of nice shit, and generally keep myself lookin' tight. I have a real easy job generating cash flow which is part of my problem. I'm self employed and make my own schedule. I can get by working 5 days a month and be straight. I'm straddled with a lot of self esteem issues and I am very apathetic and amotivational. Drugs kill my boredom and negative self image. It sucks cause the only thing I see myself good at is my job, and doing drugs. I don't half step when it comes to gettin' trashed either.

Anyways...Just some shit on my mind.

[Frank Zito]

Anyone??? "Clean" is a bad word...I know.

[Duckfeet]

Good post, good topic, and thanks for taking time to put it in correct forum...

I always say, that getting "clean" (I hate that word) is just as much a part of our life as chasing dope is, and just like a steady supply of opiates, so is getting off them altogether, a constant dream of ours...anybody who has been at this knows that this may seem contradictory, but such is the case...

I started in 1971 in Vietnam, smoking and snorting "skag", have fought it, ran from it, been to many jails and to prison for it...

The two most successful times I was off opiates was in AA: since I also was a hard drinker, AA was a good fit...however, since I'm an atheist...AA maybe is *not* such a good fit... I didn't *think* it would work, seems corny as hell, but anyway, I worked the steps, and got first five years off opiates, then a doc prescribed me dilaudids, and I was out running again for three years. When it got bad, and law was breathing down my neck in Texas, I fled to FL, and out of desperation, *again* went to AA, and went seven years off of opiates (still worked on alcohol), this time, had a paragliding accident, got knocked out, concussion, doc perscribed me IV diluadids, a week later I was gone again...that has been this last year, bouncing between tar heroin, and methadone maint, and subs...back and forth.

When I got on subs this year, I flew up to Vancouver CA in hopes of getting on their Heroin Maintenance program, but was not allowed into the country. I had always known about this program in England, but as long as *anything* else worked, I never tried it...but I know now I'll never get off opiates altogether, and I have two felony conviction, and a third strike in California and I would spend the rest of my life in prison. After several failed attempts at detoxing altogether from methadone this year, I finally got on maintenance, but I get too depressed on methadone, along with constipated and achy, so once more, I started the long detox from the 'done... I do not knock methadone anymore, as I have learned a lot more about it this year, and realize that for some people it is truly a lifesaver, but after first few weeks, for me, I cannot bear it, so I have dropped in dose from 100mg down to 35mg, and will continue slow detox, or switch to subs, one or the other...and, strangely enough, I still go to AA daily, and sponsor people, and am secretary once a week...go figure...

If I can get off methadone, right now, my hope is to travel to a country that will take me, and where there is a heroin maintenance program, that maybe I could then be o.k., as I"ve always been a reasonably cheerful soul, and just feel that the legal cruelty in my own country will eventually make me see life in prison, and I hope someday not to have to worry about that...

I understand that many people have bad opinions of both AA *and* methadone maintenance, but since you asked, this is my story...

Sometimes people new to opiates can't understand how we can both love something so much, and at the same time do anything we can to get off it...oldtimers understand...this is not an easy road, and I suggest as Uncle Bill once did, to look hard, look hard, before going down it...

[Frank Zito]

It 's a very strange thing to LOVE something and HATE it so much. I definitely know that the abyss is looking into me. My life style isn't fun anymore and for every pro that comes along with dope I can list 3 cons. STILL...boredom is probably the number one killer of people IMO. I always wonder if I make it 5 years what's gonna stop me from getting down in 2112 when my life is good and I'm sportin' the rosey colored glasses. I hate the DOUBLE EDGED sword of successfully getting yourself on track...TREATING yourself to a buzz cause "life is good"...It's crazy that dope drags us down and when we right the ship we order ourselves up another heaping helping of tsunami to blow our lil' raft to pieces...

[reddragon3668]

Frank, I've enjoyed reading some of your post. Your eloquent, and obviously, you think. I'm ten years older than you and am in this game due to chronic pain. I've been addicted to something since I was eleven years old. Most of the staple drugs, I've done... I have no illusions about who I am and my addictions.

I've been fortunate to stay out of jail. Spent a few days here and there, but I was just lucky. I grew up in a rural area in eastern NC, where the law really didn't care what we did as long as we kept it on the "back-roads." Then, I had children, and other than being a horrible, yet functional alcoholic, I pretty much cleaned up.

Regardless of why I take opiates today, I still hate the merry go round. My defiant nature screams: "I'm a man and I can do what the hell I want too," and yet, there is a part of me that hates being defeated by this. I hate being chained to something to feel "normal" or to be out of pain. Accepting this is still an inner struggle that I fight everyday.

I wish I had some pearls of wisdom for ya. I guess its like I've heard many times, quitting will never get any easier than it is today. That's a cheesy cliche', but I'm afraid its a true one.

Take care and thanks for some great post!


It 's a very strange thing to LOVE something and HATE it so much. I definitely know that the abyss is looking into me. My life style isn't fun anymore and for every pro that comes along with dope I can list 3 cons. STILL...boredom is probably the number one killer of people IMO. I always wonder if I make it 5 years what's gonna stop me from getting down in 2112 when my life is good and I'm sportin' the rosey colored glasses. I hate the DOUBLE EDGED sword of successfully getting yourself on track...TREATING yourself to a buzz cause "life is good"...It's crazy that dope drags us down and when we right the ship we order ourselves up another heaping helping of tsunami to blow our lil' raft to pieces...

[Black_Pony]

1. Ive gotten clean before using subutex (well not clean, clean, I was still using subs for maintenance) but clean off dope.

2. A trillion

3. I keep thinking I can chip.

4. Hmmm, if I can figure that one out, I'll let you know.

[Nate]

I find I am able to beat the mental and physical part of the addiction when I really want to quit. However my job is very physical and nothing beats the advantages of being opaited while doing my job. Less pain, more energy, I can make it through the 8+ hour shift without getting tired. Everytime I am not using opaites, I cant stand the work, and exaustion kills me. I love my job though with opaites in my system, and it pays so great, so i can work lots and lots of hours.

That my main reason for not being able to stay clean. I try to only do my doc while im working, and when Im not working i barely even have cravings, but if i work that day i feel like i have to score to work.

[rex24u]

1. 1st time was a jail experience that I kept going for a year. Changed where I went, who i hung out with, and what I did. I know a lot of people don't like them but 12 step programs really work for me if I want thm to and I am serious about quitting.

2.A handful of times.

3.It's the crystal and the coke that get me. I am usually good if I stay off those. Usually, not always.

4. Try to fill the hole inside of me that I keep cramming full of dope.

I honestly feel that there is something missing in my life, a void if you will, and i try to fill that void with drugs thinking that will make me feel better. It does but only temporarily.

I use opiates because after i fire up that fat shot I don't care if the roof falls in on me it will still be allright.

I use methamphetamine because I have a low self esteem and sense of self worth and that temporarily fills that void. After a good 3/10 shot of fire meth I feel like God. Actually feel like god.

I used to shoot cocaine because i liked the high. Well the first 3 minutes before I started jonesing for another shot.It was getting to the point that every time i shot cocoaine was having seizures and it just got to the point that I did like the way I felt SOOOOOO much after the high that the high isn't even worth it to me anymore.


Good topic.

[Frank Zito]

1. 1st time was a jail experience that I kept going for a year. Changed where I went, who i hung out with, and what I did. I know a lot of people don't like them but 12 step programs really work for me if I want thm to and I am serious about quitting.

2.A handful of times.

3.It's the crystal and the coke that get me. I am usually good if I stay off those. Usually, not always.

4. Try to fill the hole inside of me that I keep cramming full of dope.

I honestly feel that there is something missing in my life, a void if you will, and i try to fill that void with drugs thinking that will make me feel better. It does but only temporarily.

I use opiates because after i fire up that fat shot I don't care if the roof falls in on me it will still be allright.

I use methamphetamine because I have a low self esteem and sense of self worth and that temporarily fills that void. After a good 3/10 shot of fire meth I feel like God. Actually feel like god.

I used to shoot cocaine because i liked the high. Well the first 3 minutes before I started jonesing for another shot.It was getting to the point that every time i shot cocoaine was having seizures and it just got to the point that I did like the way I felt SOOOOOO much after the high that the high isn't even worth it to me anymore.


Good topic.


The Hole...I got a great big one too.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, whenever someone talks about "the hole in their gut" that only alcohol or heroin or whatever...fills, I cringe, because it's such a cliche...but it's also so true...all the other things that fill that hole are long gone...but opiates still do it, and sometimes I have the sort of self-serving notion that junkies really understand the sadness of the human condition, and unlike many other people, we have trouble deluding ourselves with the things that other people live for, but strong opiates, somehow physically make us feel better, and comfort us philosophically, even if we don't have the words to explain it...

[Frank Zito]

Yeah, whenever someone talks about "the hole in their gut" that only alcohol or heroin or whatever...fills, I cringe, because it's such a cliche...but it's also so true...all the other things that fill that hole are long gone...but opiates still do it, and sometimes I have the sort of self-serving notion that junkies really understand the sadness of the human condition, and unlike many other people, we have trouble deluding ourselves with the things that other people live for, but strong opiates, somehow physically make us feel better, and comfort us philosophically, even if we don't have the words to explain it...

Yo...Duck, I think that most of us DO realize the frailty and futility of the human race and that we are usually an introspective and thoughtful bunch, at least the ONES like us...lol. Man, they say that all you have to do to find out what a nation is all about look at their prisoners. It used to amaze me at how many people actually did not give a shit that they were incarcerated. Out of my 29 years on this planet 8 of them were spent in prison and a few more in juvie halls, county jails, etc. Ignorance is bliss. All we had in the joint in MI. was a basketball and a black and white t.v. and that was enough to keep us out of the law library or doing anything else constructive. All we really are is on a journey to our deaths and comparing notes on the way. Recently I have been philosophizing and analyzing my life and I know I need to make some changes and I am getting to the point where I am fully ready to commit, because I deserve it. I deserve a good life and happiness and all of the other good stuff on the planet. I look at it as I am VERY fortunate to live in the U.S. where I get to eat 3 meals a day and take a shower under running water.

I have no idea what this has to do with the original post, but...

[devilsdrug]

if i have anything to say about it i will never be clean again, sorry nothing what u might see as positive but i really hav a least half a dozen answers to ur questions

[Frank Zito]

if i have anything to say about it i will never be clean again, sorry nothing what u might see as positive but i really hav a least half a dozen answers to ur questions

DD...post what you feel, bro. I'm interested in what you have to say for sure. I wasn't necessarily looking for positive answers or motivational shit. I like to hear what others have to say and live for communication. I made this post just to hear others stories or to get them thinking. So...if you have something to say, PLEASE say it.:D

[SurfRat]

I have never been addicted although I did do a lot of drugs when younger. I think I am one of very few members of Opio not/never been addicted... No matter.
Not sure what kind of work you do. I am the opposite, work endless hours and am just smart enough to know I am not smart enough to do much better. Point being it is more challenging for a person like yourself to find interest in an otherwise boring world. I might add the third time I got arrested scared the hell out of me, but if the fear of jail doesn't deter you, I guess it makes it more your own choice.
Only thing I would say is chose friends who are more or less straight, get into sports like snowboarding or mountain biking sometimes the challenge of fitness will steer you toward another goal, things that combine adrenalin and fitness... I think geographical change helps to, if you make it hard for yourself then you aren't going to have the opportunities and it does make a difference. Younger people have to remember if you decide to go straight now you will have lots of opportunities to do other things with your life, when you are young you can try almost anything, fail and start again. Try it for a while, sure, then try something else. A young person's mind and body have the resilience to bounce back and you can start a whole new life. Other things that help would probably be junk food, sex and maybe antidepressants for a while.
If you really want to give it a try, these things might help or you may follow another path all your own even twelve steps are ok if you are ok with that type of set up.
Maybe even consider working nine to five kind of routine just to put some structure into your life. (I work freelance at home and after fifteen years I am totally sick of it, if I could find work at a company I would do it in a second just to live a more normal existence.)
It is real hard to sort out, what you get out of life, what you really need or want, what to do.

[limitless_euphoria]

1. How did you get clean?

2. How many times have you tried to clean up?

3. Why can't you STAY clean?

4. What would/will you do differently the next time you give it a shot?

Feel free to discuss anything else you have pertaining to this matter. I'm just curious as to what causes people to KEEP GOING BACK?

I've given it a couple REAL good efforts and I can't seem to keep the monkey from jumpin' back in the saddle. Shit gets discouraging. I usually don't stay clean for too long either. I am pretty sick of the self-imposed, sadistic, merry-go-round I keep jumping on and hurling myself off at top speed. I'm thinking I might outgrow it pretty soon. My problem is that I have no life skills. I spent a lot of time in and out of prison even though I'm 29. I have a hard time bein' responsible for myself. I mean, I pay my bills, have a lot of nice shit, and generally keep myself lookin' tight. I have a real easy job generating cash flow which is part of my problem. I'm self employed and make my own schedule. I can get by working 5 days a month and be straight. I'm straddled with a lot of self esteem issues and I am very apathetic and amotivational. Drugs kill my boredom and negative self image. It sucks cause the only thing I see myself good at is my job, and doing drugs. I don't half step when it comes to gettin' trashed either.

Anyways...Just some shit on my mind.

Staying clean aka abstinence―a very delicate art indeed practiced indefinitely without a struggle for nearly anyone who truly enjoys opiates.

You remind me a lot of me. Part of the problem I have with relapses is that first off, I do have real pain that has become basically chronic. Some days it is a lot worse than others. I don't think it would be nearly as bad had I not abused so many opiates in the past as I might have some degree of EDS (endorphine defficiency syndrome) which is a real, documented condition.

I am bipolar and struggle with depression and bottled up feelings on a regular basis. Not only that, but I've also found that once the genie is out of the bottle and you get a taste for opiates, it's kind of like an ex with whom you always seem to have amazing, fulfilling sex... but they're a head-case and ultimately every time you engage in a relationship with them again it brings about more problems.

The downside: she spends all your money, makes you spend your days waiting around for her to show up, she makes you physically ill when she leaves you, some days she might be better in the sack than others (quality of product reference) and in some cases if you get caught messing around with her it could injure other relationships in your life (especially if your significant other expects you not to do any substances outside of those prescribed by a doctor for legit reasons). I'm sure you follow my metaphore. Opiates collectively are one coy misteress. They truly epitomize "the double-edged sword" insofar as their equal ability to be useful and quality-of-life-enriching but dangerously destructive in many cases especially when people spiral out of control and end up burning/hurting friends, family or even strangers to support their habit.

I'm not sure where exactly I'm headed but between my financial issues and my home life I really have been trying to stay away from "street opies" and stick with what the doctors have Rx'ed me. Since I have a documented problem that shows up on x-rays they're a lot more willing to give me a little something. Honestly, I wish it was something more but I'm too much of a pussy to ask for fear of getting cut off or burning bridges. I'm sure you get a sense where I'm coming from, anyway.

You seem like a pretty cool dude so I hope whatever choice you make for your life you are able to stick with for the long haul. Remember, there is always tramadol, suboxone and methadone to keep the jones away. Each has its own pros and cons.

There's my $0.02 for whatever its worth. Don't spend it all in one place now!

[Indy]

I, like many, choose not to be "clean". Call it an excuse, but the only thing that's solved my mental problems ("solved" if you will, since it causes other problems) is opiates. I was miserable and suicidal (literally, ended up in the hospital in a coma before opiates) until i found opiates.

God blessed me (if you believe in such things, not sure if i do but i guess so) with a miraculously low tolerance. I have been using for something like 2 and a half years or so and i can still get high off 8 oz of seeds. I should seriously be studied or something. So i figure since it's so cheap for me to do opiates (IF I dont let my tolerance get out of control) then i might as well, since it helps me live a productive life.

I have been clean, it was hard, but after a week or so i was OK. Then after a couple nights i realized i wasn't really feeling w/d, because all the memories of what it felt like before i started using came back, and i realized it was exactly like it was then. Sure, minor W/D were still there and weren't helping, but i took a good look at myself and said "these problems aren't going to go away. ever." and i realized that the only way i can live the way society wants me to is to use opiates.

call me weak, or say i'm making excuses, but there is something wrong with me that i don't understand, all i know is euphoria cures just about everything. i'm convinced that i really do have problems other people don't, i don't know if other people could live like i am when i don't have opiates, but one thing's for sure: i sure as hell can't.

[upstate_007]

Clean is a grey area for me. I successfully kicked heroin over 11 years ago and have not touched it since. I got arrested in NYC for trespassing and spent 3 long days kicking in the Tombs then got extradited to a county jail further upstate. I was in there for a few months with no relief in sight and still feeling like the underside of a shoe that just stepped in dogshit. Then the choice was offered to go into a 30day rehab or do 6 months in the county. I took the rehab route and for whatever reason I decided to stay clean. I was just sick and tired of living like an animal on the streets. Shit like sleeping in train stations, stealing food, never enough money, and the life of a junky gutter punk in general had run its course with me.

So yup, I did the rehab and halfway house (both court mandated) and hit the streets running from there. I dabble in whatever kind of opiates I can get fro doctors and stuff like that and the occasional friend with a stash of pills but I keep myself clean and without a tolerance most of the time.

Over the last two years though chronic pain has become a part of my life and along with it the need/desire/obsession for opiates is back. I still like the way they feel, but I need them for the pain more than anything else. Just trying to walk the tightrope without falling off right now.

[Duckfeet]

I got your PM on SDP, and was thinking about it. I don't post too much on this, since it's not a "recovery" website, but since I realize you are at least wrestling with the idea of trying to get off opys seriously--which is also a huge part of our life--I figured I'd post again, without trying to be cool or funny, and tell u my thoughts on the matter...this is not eternal truth, or even correct, just how I see things after many years in this game.

There are people who are hard narcotics addicts, who actually do get away. They did some survey that showed that most of the heroin addicts in Vietnam, came home, and never touched the shit again. I'm not one of them, obviously.

People who get off this shit *really*, as oppose to just *quitting again* kind of crap we always do--and see=--are different. My own experience in my life, and watching others, is that to get clean (I hate the term, but don't know what else to use) I have to really make a comttiment to sobriety. I can't like, take up heavy drinking, or just do non-injectable opiates, or some other half-stepping measure. The truth is, anytime I'd quit heroin, I'd go have me a couple of beers, and sooner or later, I'd be on the phone to the man...

I got off dope for five years and then for seven years. Only way I could do it was to make total comitment. I'd dry out, go to detox if needed, then find me an NA or AA meeting I could stand, and go there three or four times a day: as many meetings as they have, get involved, get a sponsor, work the steps. It's the corniest shit in the world, but it does seem to work "pretty good." I mean, it worked for years for me, and that's better than I could ever do under my own steam.

My curse is that I'm rasied a total atheist by my Pop, and just have a lot of trouble with that...but anyway, main thing is be willing to do whatever. I always tell new people to get ruthless, fuck anything anybody gets in yer way.

I go to AA at least five times a week here at noon meeting by beach. I don't believe in God, none of that...but they don't care, and it helps me have a little bit of real life community in my life, and a place where people understand me and what I've been thru better than others....

So quit on yer own...go to chuch and pray...go to an AA/NA meeting and shake some old grouch's hand and ask him to help you....

Just wanted u to know it could be done...just not easy.


I've given it a couple REAL good efforts and I can't seem to keep the monkey from jumpin' back in the saddle.

<snip>

Anyways...Just some shit on my mind.

[LaLa]

1. Got clean from a rough heroin run when i was younger by going to rehab for chronic relapsers, was detoxed with 'done then went to AA for years, even worked at a rehab for a few years
2. Had tried many times prior. And now with pills have gotten off a few times. once with subs for a short detox only to find out I actually have chronic pain and it wasn't created by my imagination and love for opiates
3. Don't want to anymore. Would rather live than be in pain (the high is nice too!)
4. I don't think as of now I will give it another shot. I hope to get adequate pain relief and be able to find a balance with pain relief and recreational use, yes i know how that sounds i might be dreaming.

I kept going back because I have always felt better with that warm fuzzy glow. I managed to stay away from going back to heroin for 8 years. Mostly because it was bad, and I was young and stupid and was almost put away for the dumb shit i got myself involved in so I won't go back.

[jonny-5]

I, like many, choose not to be "clean". Call it an excuse, but the only thing that's solved my mental problems ("solved" if you will, since it causes other problems) is opiates. I was miserable and suicidal (literally, ended up in the hospital in a coma before opiates) until i found opiates.

God blessed me (if you believe in such things, not sure if i do but i guess so) with a miraculously low tolerance. I have been using for something like 2 and a half years or so and i can still get high off 8 oz of seeds. I should seriously be studied or something. So i figure since it's so cheap for me to do opiates (IF I dont let my tolerance get out of control) then i might as well, since it helps me live a productive life.

I have been clean, it was hard, but after a week or so i was OK. Then after a couple nights i realized i wasn't really feeling w/d, because all the memories of what it felt like before i started using came back, and i realized it was exactly like it was then. Sure, minor W/D were still there and weren't helping, but i took a good look at myself and said "these problems aren't going to go away. ever." and i realized that the only way i can live the way society wants me to is to use opiates.

call me weak, or say i'm making excuses, but there is something wrong with me that i don't understand, all i know is euphoria cures just about everything. i'm convinced that i really do have problems other people don't, i don't know if other people could live like i am when i don't have opiates, but one thing's for sure: i sure as hell can't.

dude, i feel the same way as you. i had 10 months clean twice, and they were the 20 most miserable months of my life. the only time im content is when im opiated. thats the bottom line. when i was a kid i had dreams about doing drugs before i had even smoked a cigarette. ive been on drugs since i was 14 cause they work. they bring other problems, but when im clean and dont have the other problems, im just fucking hating life. ive pretty much accepted the fact that im gonna be addicted to this shit my whole life, and i know there will be clean periods, but i know i will always go back. thats just the way it is. period. anyways, just wanted you to know you arent the only one who is like this.

[waggz]

1. How did you get clean?
My family was tired of looking into an empty soul. I wasn't the one being hurt by my choices of using drugs and alcohol. 8 months ago my family told me that i was going to rehab out in Montana for 2 months. I was high when they told me this and i just told them to shut the fuck up. During this time i was 17. After they were done saying how they felt and wanted me to get help i went up into my room searching franticly for my stash. The nite before i was on coke and must of forgotten about buying my pills. They already had my clothes packed along with evrything else. My father and mother and myself drove over 22hours to montana. Lemme tell you.. that was a bitch.
The first week of being at rehab i told the counselors to fuck off n give me my shit because im leaving. Their excuse was because that i wasn't 18 they couldn't let me leave the premises without involving the police. I said fuck it and just figured id play the game and acted like i wanted to be sober. My plan worked.. accept when i got home i had to do 3 months of outpatient and ended up with 3 years probation.
I wasn't expecting that so i jus kept with it. So sometime in October i called one of my old using buddys and been using ever since.

2. How many times have you tried to clean up?
Once

3. Why can't you STAY clean?
I dont want to be clean..

4. What would/will you do differently the next time you give it a shot?
Do it for me instead of my family.

any questions.. ill be happy to answer them

[Chicago]

@DUCK FEET CAN I GO ALONG W/U ON THIS JOURNEY/
@FRANK ZITO WHAT DO U DO 4 A LIVING THAT 5 DAYS OF 30 IS ENUFF FOR BILLS LIVE TITE AND ALOT OF DOOPE?:rolleyes:

Good post, good topic, and thanks for taking time to put it in correct forum...

I always say, that getting "clean" (I hate that word) is just as much a part of our life as chasing dope is, and just like a steady supply of opiates, so is getting off them altogether, a constant dream of ours...anybody who has been at this knows that this may seem contradictory, but such is the case...

I started in 1971 in Vietnam, smoking and snorting "skag", have fought it, ran from it, been to many jails and to prison for it...

The two most successful times I was off opiates was in AA: since I also was a hard drinker, AA was a good fit...however, since I'm an atheist...AA maybe is *not* such a good fit... I didn't *think* it would work, seems corny as hell, but anyway, I worked the steps, and got first five years off opiates, then a doc prescribed me dilaudids, and I was out running again for three years. When it got bad, and law was breathing down my neck in Texas, I fled to FL, and out of desperation, *again* went to AA, and went seven years off of opiates (still worked on alcohol), this time, had a paragliding accident, got knocked out, concussion, doc perscribed me IV diluadids, a week later I was gone again...that has been this last year, bouncing between tar heroin, and methadone maint, and subs...back and forth.

When I got on subs this year, I flew up to Vancouver CA in hopes of getting on their Heroin Maintenance program, but was not allowed into the country. I had always known about this program in England, but as long as *anything* else worked, I never tried it...but I know now I'll never get off opiates altogether, and I have two felony conviction, and a third strike in California and I would spend the rest of my life in prison. After several failed attempts at detoxing altogether from methadone this year, I finally got on maintenance, but I get too depressed on methadone, along with constipated and achy, so once more, I started the long detox from the 'done... I do not knock methadone anymore, as I have learned a lot more about it this year, and realize that for some people it is truly a lifesaver, but after first few weeks, for me, I cannot bear it, so I have dropped in dose from 100mg down to 35mg, and will continue slow detox, or switch to subs, one or the other...and, strangely enough, I still go to AA daily, and sponsor people, and am secretary once a week...go figure...

If I can get off methadone, right now, my hope is to travel to a country that will take me, and where there is a heroin maintenance program, that maybe I could then be o.k., as I"ve always been a reasonably cheerful soul, and just feel that the legal cruelty in my own country will eventually make me see life in prison, and I hope someday not to have to worry about that...

I understand that many people have bad opinions of both AA *and* methadone maintenance, but since you asked, this is my story...

Sometimes people new to opiates can't understand how we can both love something so much, and at the same time do anything we can to get off it...oldtimers understand...this is not an easy road, and I suggest as Uncle Bill once did, to look hard, look hard, before going down it...

[Frank Zito]

@DUCK FEET CAN I GO ALONG W/U ON THIS JOURNEY/
@FRANK ZITO WHAT DO U DO 4 A LIVING THAT 5 DAYS OF 30 IS ENUFF FOR BILLS LIVE TITE AND ALOT OF DOOPE?:rolleyes:


I'm a TATTOO artist...

[trainwrecker]

. How did you get clean?

One time I got clean, just once in 7 years. And that was only for two weeks. I went out to NYC with the intention of moving there, and getting off dope. I didn't know anyone there and wasn't into meeting anyone, so I quit. Two weeks later I was on a bus to Detroit.

2. How many times have you tried to clean up?
I used to try to clean up alot when I was on heroin, when I first started. Then I went on methadone for 3 years, then I switched to suboxone this summer.

I tried to kick them a week or so ago. It didn't work.

3. Why can't you STAY clean?

God hates me.

4. What would/will you do differently the next time you give it a shot?

after Christmas