Injectable methadone

[EleusisII]

In Denmark they're considering some alternatives to MMT: LAAM, Injectable heroin (Easy duckfeet! Not for another year or so!), and injectable methadone. Has anyone tried this or heard about it? Would would the difference be between oral and injectable methadone?

[Nate]

shooting methadone would be used for people still hooked to the needle, as a way of satisfying that fix. Other then that injected methadone is no different.

[Canis aureus]

There are conflicting reports/opinions about shooting methadone. Some say injectable methadone produces warm, strong rush and decent buzz, while some claim it doesn't. One British guy with whom I talked said that he likes shot methadone very much. He shot quite heavy amounts of methadone either once or twice a day. He chose injectable methadone over injectable diamorphine btw.

I myself don't have any sort of real drive to shoot methadone. Methadone has enough high oral bioavailability (about 90%) that it makes shooting pointless. And the effects which I attch to methadone are not related to shooting; in other words for me methadone's point is long, subtle steady phase, not the coming in, kicking in thing.

[aj11]

Off the streets SWIM gets the 10mg methadone pills and when crushed and add cold water and shoot up , for SWIM it does provide a nice warm rush, that warm back feeling similar to heroin, but only last about 10 seconds??? so SWIM just eats them now

[nick]

Yeah,I've done a fair bit of physeptone.I don't really rate it,but it depends on your circumstances and what your looking for.
Unless you've got a needle habit.......you may as well stick with oral 'done.

[tui]

was always sceptical about this-
til i tried it
actually v nice. good rush.
'done is $1 a mg here though-and often watered down-
round here turning a pill is a cheaper & better high.

t

[nick]

Urr,that's "interesting" because phy is 'done in injectable amps and I NEVER got a good buzz from them.

[tui]

^
yeah, like i said, i was surprised
def rush though.
v common to IV 'done here

t

[nick]

I guess it must be a southern hemisphere thing because it don't happen here.

Still,if you got a rush,much respect to you.

[underide]

By all accounts, if you're tolerant to only short-acting opiates, then you will get a rush from iv done.
Its only when you stabilize on methadone (maybe bupe too) that you don't feel the rush.

there are a few trip reports on erowid of people injecting methadone and actually comparing it to iv morphine in potency and euphoric effect.
Old man Burroughs said that the first time he was shot with dolophine, he couldn't tell the difference between it and morphine and actually referred to it afterwards as 'synthetic morphine'. I will provide a link for the exact quote if i find it again (there is more interesting stuff being discussed apart from methadone in that article that might be of interest)

I've read some articles with reports of people on MMT in Austria who get injectable 'done and apparently it's much more effective than oral 'done at sustaining patients and keeping them on the program quite possibly due to an increased euphoria factor.

[nick]

Rubbish,sorry to impugn the word of uncle Bill,but this is rubbish.

Of course this is only my limited opinion.

Here's a wild idea try shooting diamorphine then shoot phy and you tell me what you think.

[underide]

I wouldn't worry about doing any injustice to Old Bill - with all my respect for him, the guy is dead.
It's all other people that are still living, and report on having a rush from iv done.

If you have no (long-acting) opiate tolerance you do get a rush of iv 'done, and that is a 'medical' fact my friend.
Your comparing diamorphine to physeptone has absolutely nothing to do with it.
And just saying that other peoples' opinions are rubbish, and yours are the only ones that count is just childish and snobbish.

[nick]

One question,have you personaly shot both diamorphine and phy?

If so and you think you get a good buzz off phy,we'll discuss it more because I'd like to hear about other's experience with these drugs.

If you haven't..............

I'm sorry,if you find my response offensive,but it's been one of those days for me.A poor excuse,but it's true and the only one I've got.

[underide]

Hey, no problem.
I have never had the pleasure of shooting pharmaceutical diamorphine.
I did have a few years of a habit of street gear.
And i have never shot physeptone (i am on MMT oral 'done now) either, but have seen reports of people doing it, hence my replies.

[nick]

We're cool man and I'd like to offer my sincere apologies.You were right I was being rude and I thank you for pointing it out.It's amazing friends and family wo'nt talk about one's bad behaviour.

[underide]

Thats cool.
I think I know what you mean man.

[Duckfeet]

I've noticed you've been a little, oh, more abrasive than you used to be...but what little I know, is that you've gone thru some really tough times lately. You have a knack, tho, online anyway, for making people care about you, and want the best for you... So, if u need be a little fesitier than we're used to, it's cool with me. You're someone that would have to put in a lot of sustained effort, to be disliked on here...


We're cool man and I'd like to offer my sincere apologies.You were right I was being rude and I thank you for pointing it out.It's amazing friends and family wo'nt talk about one's bad behaviour.

[Dirtyrockstar]

i don't like methadone. it goes in the bad nazi invention box with methamphetamines and volkswagens

however, i have shot both diamorphine and physeptone and its no contest. physeptone or any methadone is reserved for hard times when absolutely nothing else is available. i can understand a cleanskin with no experience thinking it was the dogs bollocks but after morph or smack the difference would be obvious.
i'd take the subbies over 'done.

physeptone is also expensive attracting $1/mg for reasons which boggle my addled mind.

[nick]

1.What Dirtyrockstar said.......Oh great handle by the way Mr Rockstar.

2.DF,yeah the good times aren't exactly rolling here,but I'll try and be on my best behaviour here.

[Inspektahdek]

my friend years ago shot up liquid methadone in my bathroom, and was fucked up, he got it from south america never ever seen it since

[xxanxx]

In regards to injecting methadone in pill form, it's certainly not worth the risk IMO.

I have done it and experienced no rush whatsoever.

[Duckfeet]

I agree on the pills: a waste. I wish--hopelessly==that they would allow injectable methadone here, simply because where they have heroin maintenance, another option is usually injectable methadone, which it seems longterm junkies have some luck with.... Yes, sure, it's a needle thing...so? It's there, and this might help...but I don't see it happening...what they want is some drug that will get rid of craving, but give us no pleasure at all...and they'd worry too much that the needle might give us a few seconds of pleasure, and that makes the people in power sleep less comfortably at night...

[rachamim18]

There is a "rush" on injected Benadryl. The "rush" is not euphoria however and that is what most addicts crave. Methadone is incapable of producing this so it is not really a subjective issue. The reason why needles might be under consideration is two fold: As one said, people have a fixation with injecting. Secondly, it is easier to avoid diversion which is a lways a huge problem with any distribution of methadone.

Injectable ampoules cannot be backwahed, etc. for diversion so it is seen as another advantge.

[Dirtyrockstar]

injected liquid 'done too, honestly got more of a buzz that from the phy pills but id never do it again. 10 ml rigs are scary.

btw thanks nick, you can call me john, my dad is MR rockstar hahaha!!

[Duckfeet]

I don't quite agree, Rach: unlike some, I usually agree with, or defer to you, but on this one, I disagree, or maybe misunderstand. I agree that the "needle thing" is a huge part of it. But there are two types of rushes one gets from opiates: the buzz, and the "getting well". Methadone has never produced much "buzz" for me, but has worked on "getting well," which, in the mornings, is a good "rush." So I think that there is this third aspect, beside the two you mentioned, and when I read the success they have in countries, I know what longterm addicts are looking for, and I think injected methadone might very well produce this... I get a little uncomfortable with your saying methadone is incapable of producing this...as a matter of fact, I'd have to dig a little, but it seemed like longterm addicts sometimes liked the "feeling" quite a bit...and we aren't so stupid as to like it, "just because" it is injected. In other words, the very *slowness" of time-release liquid methadone is what addicts like me dislike, and when I read accounts of addicts in countries where injectable methadone is allowed, it sure sounds like a rush...and not the kind you get from Benadryl, either...when I say "rush", it includes that good, euphoric feeling, that even anti-methadonians like me, recognize in the beginning. I think you're wrong on this one...but as usual, I pay attention...and in all honesty, I've never had myself injectable methadone, only crushed up methadone pain pills, which did nothing....

But our "fixation with injecting" is based on the reality that injected opiates cause this "rush," and that eating them does not....people sometimes don't get it, thinks it's some kind of weird obsession. No, it's not: we've just learned thru trial and error that injected opiates provide us that immediate change from "so-so" or "unhappy" to "feeling good."


There is a "rush" on injected Benadryl. The "rush" is not euphoria however and that is what most addicts crave. Methadone is incapable of producing this so it is not really a subjective issue. The reason why needles might be under consideration is two fold: As one said, people have a fixation with injecting. Secondly, it is easier to avoid diversion which is a lways a huge problem with any distribution of methadone.

Injectable ampoules cannot be backwahed, etc. for diversion so it is seen as another advantge.

[nick]

1.I've never shot oral 'done,but I've seen it done.100 mls of sugar free cooked down I'm told is like a £10 bag.

2.Phy does give a slight buzz with the full dose effect in 5 minutes.

[Duckfeet]

Yes Nick...see u know I google a lot on heroin maint, and they talk sometimes about how some people *prefer* the feeling of methadone coming on, and compare it to heroin, except they only fix once...but anyway, curious about this, and unfortunate we don't have somebody who's actually been on it for a while...injectable 'done that is...


1.I've never shot oral 'done,but I've seen it done.100 mls of sugar free cooked down I'm told is like a £10 bag.

2.Phy does give a slight buzz with the full dose effect in 5 minutes.

[nick]

I had about 1 months worth of daily use.There was a diamorphine shortage and I was switched to IV 'done(physeptone).I was VERY happy when I could get diamorphine again.

[Duckfeet]

Oh, I didn't know that...so u think it's more like what Rach said: that there was no rush of euphoria or nothing like that?


I had about 1 months worth of daily use.There was a diamorphine shortage and I was switched to IV 'done(physeptone).I was VERY happy when I could get diamorphine again.

[nick]

Sure there's a rush,but it's nothing compared with H,it's more leak a weak washout.Then it kinda builds for 5 minutes.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, for obvious reasons, I thought maybe it had more of a chance here, than DM of course...and it sure seemed more appealing to me, than the koolaid crap we take...on the other hand, something u wrote about Diamorphine Maint., on another post, really stuck with me, when u said the real problem was it was a one-way street... Hard earned knowledge, for sure, Nick, and probably not seen as the the heavy statement it was...but that is the saddest thing about heroin in general: if it works, and works good, nothing else is ever quite the same....


Sure there's a rush,but it's nothing compared with H,it's more leak a weak washout.Then it kinda builds for 5 minutes.

[nick]

Yeah bro,diamorphine is pretty much a one way street,not a bad street-more a pleasant avenue in a good part of town,but it's still a one way street.

I didn't realise how far I'd gone down the street till Milly was born and realised I'd gone to far to go back.
Bastante-I'm getting maudlin.

[Canis aureus]

I talked with a guy (English) who like very much injectable methadone.

He shot 250 mg, and said it produce HELL of the Rush and decent Buzz. He talked about injectable ampoulles. It wsn't certainly just a needle thing

He was ex-heroin addict. And he knew very well what he was talking about. He didn't lie, nor was he,...

[nick]

Injectable amps of 'done are physeptone and unless you like sticking needles in yourself(hell,I do) you're better off with oral 'done.

[Canis aureus]

He said he gets five 50 mg's ampoules, didn't specify anything else. He was/is from Liverpool, so it must be physeptone... he really liked them.

[Duckfeet]

It meant a lot to me, when you wrote it...because I knew the amount of pain it must have cost you, to come to this realization. It's the one I never talk about either, and usually only face around 4 in the morning, when it's harder to bullshit myself at all, and much as I love heroin...Honesty is, it's taken more than it gave, when I think of wonderful career and long-gone beautiful wife, and dope is still here, always faithful...whether I do it or not...and why I occasionally get irritable on here...as after the fun, fun, fun is gone, and your veins are shot, and there's nothing to look forward to but that which took everything away...oh well, some lessons are better left unsaid I guess...

Yeah bro,diamorphine is pretty much a one way street,not a bad street-more a pleasant avenue in a good part of town,but it's still a one way street.

I didn't realise how far I'd gone down the street till Milly was born and realised I'd gone to far to go back.
Bastante-I'm getting maudlin.

[nick]

I bet he likes them,let's face it if you can't get diamorphine,physeptone is as good as it gets.

Liverpool huh,I know a LOT of users there.

[IceCold]

I tried injecting a 40mg wafer a while back it took for every to get the shot out of the mush in the spoon and into the rig. All in all not worth it though I did feel higher than normal off of methadone. Oh and speaking of benadryl giving a rush in case you all didn't know in Saint Louis it is common practice for dealers to add Dormin( Diphenhydramine product pretty much same as benadryl) to buttons (our Capsule equivalent of $10 bag). Most junkies are so use to it that if they get raw dope they will mix it with dormin themselves in order to get a "better" rush.

[red26]

Sup everyone! Nice to see Nick and Duckfeet are still around. Shit its been a long time. Shootin' the jive-juice huh? I do it when I cant afford to pay for my daily dose at the clinic if I've got a few mgs. around to keep the boogyman away. I've never gotten a rush from it but could def. see getting one of my tolerance was where it was 5 years or so ago.;)

[nick]

Cool to see you back Red,I've been wondering how you've been getting on.

You still with the temptress and have you heard from Poon?

[Duckfeet]

Alright Red, good to see you...btw, TP has put together a pretty cool site, so if Opy goes down, we have a place to hangout, and, hell, particularly late at night, when all the kiddies have gone to bed, I hang out over there anyway, addy is: stopdrugprohibition.com SDP for short.... Anyway, good to see you dropping back in here...

[Consumed.]

I know of many people who shoot their take home doses of done and they all say it gives them a rush and similar to heroin. I have always found it hard to believe but so many people say. I think it depends on how much you can shoot at once too. They use the 3cc gauges and get about 60mg in each shot, usually doing two in a row.

[Duckfeet]

I wouldn't believe a word of it...I'd laugh if somebody told me they got a rush from shooting up their takehomes, and I discourage doing anything with your takehomes except...taking them home...

Clinic methadone, hell, PM methadone doesn't give any kind of rush, and fixing the koolaid is a *bad* idea...hell, if it gave a rush, junkies would be flocking to the m'done clinic...

No rush...just like subs, nothing happens...repeat: no rush at all...if u don't miss, u *might* get a little sleepier than normal...


I know of many people who shoot their take home doses of done and they all say it gives them a rush and similar to heroin. I have always found it hard to believe but so many people say. I think it depends on how much you can shoot at once too. They use the 3cc gauges and get about 60mg in each shot, usually doing two in a row.

[rachamim18]

I have done injectable methadone, in the UK. To my knowledge that is the only place in which it is available. It is pretty much a waste though. The main attraction is that so many junkies have a needle fetish and that might help themin their struggle to cease all other psychoactive usage.

Sorry, do not have time to read the entire thread and wish to apologise before hand if another poster has addressed the people talking about injecting oral methadone solution: It is a total waste. Oral methadone is specially formulated for oral usgae only and has a super high bioavailability, ergo no advantage with injecting it. Also, there is NO rush/euphoria and it is chemically impossible (I have explained this at length many times, both here and elsewhere).

[Duckfeet]

Exactly: we were talking strictly about the takehomes here...I've never had the injectable methadone, like the clinics in UK, but it would make sense if yer veins were trashed, and only wanted to fix once daily, but didn't want to give up needle altogether...I've hear it gives u a bit of the "get well" kind of slight euphoria u get when u first start oral methadone, and that alone would make me want to try it....

But I came down a hair hard on the possibility of injection of takehome oral methadone here, as time and time again, I've heard same result: nothing...it's like fixing koolaid, and what terrible crap to be putting in a vein anyway....


I have done injectable methadone, in the UK. To my knowledge that is the only place in which it is available. It is pretty much a waste though. The main attraction is that so many junkies have a needle fetish and that might help themin their struggle to cease all other psychoactive usage.

Sorry, do not have time to read the entire thread and wish to apologise before hand if another poster has addressed the people talking about injecting oral methadone solution: It is a total waste. Oral methadone is specially formulated for oral usgae only and has a super high bioavailability, ergo no advantage with injecting it. Also, there is NO rush/euphoria and it is chemically impossible (I have explained this at length many times, both here and elsewhere).

[tui]

I have done injectable methadone, in the UK. To my knowledge that is the only place in which it is available. It is pretty much a waste though. The main attraction is that so many junkies have a needle fetish and that might help themin their struggle to cease all other psychoactive usage.

Sorry, do not have time to read the entire thread and wish to apologise before hand if another poster has addressed the people talking about injecting oral methadone solution: It is a total waste. Oral methadone is specially formulated for oral usgae only and has a super high bioavailability, ergo no advantage with injecting it. Also, there is NO rush/euphoria and it is chemically impossible (I have explained this at length many times, both here and elsewhere).


Not in NZ.
It is def NOT a total waste to shoot.

'done here has nothing added- no juice, kool-aid etc. and comes in small, concentrated quantities.

I was on the methadone program for a year and a half or so (in Canada and in NZ), and in both countries didn't get a buzz from oral dosing.

In NZ take-homes of oral liquid 'done have a nice rush/ euphoria when IVed. I know from experience. And it's NOT just me, that's the way people enjoy their take-homes in NZ. It feels completely diff to drinking it.


t

[Canis aureus]

Yeah!

Of course it feels different, or it has to. No one would do it just because of needle addiction; well possibly some could do it only because needles, but not too many. There wouldn't be folks who are maintained with methadone amps, instead of diamorphine amps...

[nick]

Yeah!

Of course it feels different, or it has to. No one would do it just because of needle addiction; well possibly some could do it only because needles, but not too many. There wouldn't be folks who are maintained with methadone amps, instead of diamorphine amps...

Umm bro,in the UK addicts use physeptone because they can't get diamorphine.It's a stepping stone to diamorphine for some.

and for shooting oral 'done,I hear that 100 mls of 'done=about a £10 bag-not a good swap.

[rachamim18]

They have it in the UK and Australia. in EU studies addicts actually hsow a preferance for injectable methadone as oposed to heroin, something I find very curious. I have tried it twice, both times in London. It was ok, much better than oral but nothing at all like heroin,etc.

injection of oral methadone is very unsafe and a total waste of the material.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, I just read that somewhere else, on "injectable" methadone...I mean, I know I'd *die* to get something I can fix, rather than drink, and by all accounts, like *lots* of accounts, the people really like it a lot better injectable. Yeah, I don't even want to get *into* fixing U.S. clinic mdone: thats a wasted garbage fix, for sure...

[Canis aureus]

Umm bro,in the UK addicts use physeptone because they can't get diamorphine.It's a stepping stone to diamorphine for some.

and for shooting oral 'done,I hear that 100 mls of 'done=about a £10 bag-not a good swap.

Yes, some... But I know one in UK -- btw who said he is not the only one by any means -- who said he don't crave to diamorphine maintenance (because those use to get too little of diamorphine compared to methadone). methadone lasts longer, plus he could get enough of it; in other words, he is not going to go to diamorphine, but is rather on methadone and stays on it. He said he gets truely enough buzz of it, and that he is not an exception.

What is usual amount of diamorphine a day? That guy gets 250 mg physeptone (I don't know about that name, but he must be on it, if there are not other names than physeptone... he never speaks about the name, but only methadone amps).

Anyways, there must be other and quite alot. I mean there are those people who are on injectable methadone just because of its benefits (what ever those are), not trying to get on diamorphine.

[nick]

True man,I think one of the reasons for this is that folks aren't or can't get rxed enough diamorphine.
Plus some guys just prefer 'done.

[LorTabitha]

Nick, the program you were on - was it tailored specifically for you as far as amount rx'd? I guess I just assumed everybody would get the same thing, since it was a "program" but maybe not? Can you post a little more about it, please? :-)

[nick]

Nick, the program you were on - was it tailored specifically for you as far as amount rx'd? I guess I just assumed everybody would get the same thing, since it was a "program" but maybe not? Can you post a little more about it, please? :-)

No,doses are individual and range from addict to addict and clinic to clinic.I got 150mgs of diamorphine a day and I'd pick up from a chemist twice a week.
Doses range from 60mg-500mg and very occasionally more.

[LorTabitha]

So they didn't regulate when you took your doses, like they do in methadone clinics? Also, was there a way for them to determine dosage mathematically, or was it just willy-nilly? Thanks for the info!

[nick]

So they didn't regulate when you took your doses, like they do in methadone clinics? Also, was there a way for them to determine dosage mathematically, or was it just willy-nilly? Thanks for the info!

I could take as much of my script whenever I wanted.There is no supervised consumption outside of diamorphine trials in the UK.

For doseage,when I started they just used a standard converstion table and then adjusted dose to my "needs."

[rachamim18]

Well, the "Rush" is really just your receptors being rap[idly flooded. I know what you mean about "getting well," I used to love that feeling too. Sadly it became the high point of my day after a while.


"Uncomfortable with Rchamim saying methadone is incapable of producing a rush." There is a gold tsndard known as "Th Morphine Rule. " The rule has 4 parts. A morphine class substance must meet all 4 parts to be defined as an opiate/opioid. Within the rule is the component responsbile for psychoactive possibility. MEthadone passes 3 of the 4 rules but fails to meet the one rule responsible for euphoria:

The Ch2-CH2 group must be directly attached to 3 other carbon atoms which are directly attached to 1 tertiary nitrogen atom. This allows for Mu2 mediation. Mu2 is the subset of Mu which is responsbile for euphoria.

Methadone has a CH3 group attached to the 2nd atom of the CH2.

This is a very minscule difference but it is the crucial diffrence responsible for the lack of euphoria.

So, you can get a SLIGHT rush when injecting INJECTABLE methadone but will never get that dizzying rush.

"Time release of oral methadone." But it is not slow or extended release. It just has a super long half life and super high receptor affinity. Injectable lasts just as long although psychologically it might very well seem longer. I do not remember my having felt that it lasted longer but that was so long ago.

You are correct that many addicts perfer injectable methadone over even heroin. This does have to do with the needle and perhaps with the long duration that negates having to "fix" every 4 hours or so. It is not about being stupid. the Placebo Theory is a very real phenomenon, as is ritualisation of drug usage.

[DCBA]

Isn't methadone twice as potent when IV'd (same potency as morphine, compared to 2x need for oral?)


And theres a rush from methadone it has to do with tolerance and such. I know a few adddicts who would get liquid methadone in bottles of 1Liter and injected that till it ended.

[Duckfeet]

I think a lot of us actually *love* that feeling of "getting well", no matter what you call it. To normal people it sounds stupid. When they hear the gov propoganda, that all heroin does after a while is "get a person well," or get us back to normal, blah blah blah...I agree with William Burroughs, that until a person is addicted, and gets sick, and then "gets well," they never really understand what it's all about... I know, it sounds somewhat masochistic, but that's why--I think--so many of us wish we *had* injectable methadone, as when I wake up all groggy and blue and achy in the morning, to think of a good strong opiate like methadone, and get the immediate effect, rather than the prolonged "improvement" that liquid mdones gives....but as usual, our puritan gov considers anything that produces euphoria--which is a good description for "getting well,"--a sinful activity, kind of like sex, and they can't abide by it...

Well, off to doc, tell'em my vics just ain't cutting it...

[rachamim18]

Duck: No doubt. I would wager almost all if not all. After the Honeymoon Phase that is the only attraction really. I used to love it. I used to purposely skip Sundays (banking those take homes instead) just so I could really enjoy it Monday morning.

I also agree with the Burroughs paraphrasing. He was so right. You know, my family here ALL know about my addiction and to them it is very forieng since there no opiates/opioids here. All they have to compare it to really is the Shabu (Ice) addicts here. We have one bro-in-law of Mom who was a PDEA (Philippines DEA) operative who started for whatever reaon pilfering bits from his arrests and developed a full blown addiction.

So they do understand the compulsiveness but they do not know what a true physical addiction is. They have known me for almost 24 years now so they know I have been on topiates/opioids for along time but the W/D mystifies them. I think it would be the same with all squares.

You can explain it as a"getting straight," etc. but in the end they will never fully understand it. The physical sickness coupled woth the mental W/D is diffiuclt to convey.

To be honest, isince considering your questions about Heroin OST I have been examing in depth (much more than usual) the different views around the world. The fact that EU junkies pick injectable methadone over Rx heroin shocked me.

I understand that there is the time constraint posed by injectable heroin (every 6 hours is the normal regimen, sometimes only every 12 hours) , and that methadone being a once a day administration is very advantageous, but the fact remains. Most junkies (in fact all I have known personally nd discussed it with) do opiates/opioids because of the euphoria,etc. MEthadone is chemically incapable of euphoria. This is a fact that I wish were not true. So then, why pick it?

I think that it along the lines of your view. First, it DOES give a brief rush. Secondly, it immediate sates the receptors and has the strongest affinity in that respect so maybe that is most of the dynamic.

Long term junkies live for getting straight.

I also think that amps among other alternatives should be permitted for any junky because we are not cookie cutter shapes. Individuals have different needs.

You need to detox fast and cop a ticket to a more positve nation. Most of the nations offering other forms of OST have balcklisted me, either for my felonies or my political affiliation in Israel ( I was a Kahanist in my youth, an organisatrion on the US Terrorist list). So I do not have too many options. I am basically on morphine maintenance here so I should not compain but it always seems like something is missing.

[Duckfeet]

Exactly, but it sure doesn't *sound* like much of a rationale, to non-opiate people, and I can't explain it good myself...but your post above, on the reasons that longterm addicts would so often opt for injectable mdone, is well-put description of what I was trying to say...and why so many of us want the needle, rather than oral, but mdone has the side benefit of one not needing to just about *live* at the damn clinic, if one is getting heroin. I presume that after a while the rush *does* sort of wear off, unless one continues indefinately to increase doses, to, for me, injectable methadone would be a very acceptable alternative. *But* even at my age, still, I would sacrifice much, just to once in a while again, get to experience the overwhelming euphoria of injected heroin, as it slowly pervades my whole body...




<snip>
Long term junkies live for getting straight.


<snip>.

[nick]

Duck: No doubt. I would wager almost all if not all. After the Honeymoon Phase that is the only attraction really. I used to love it. I used to purposely skip Sundays (banking those take homes instead) just so I could really enjoy it Monday morning.

I also agree with the Burroughs paraphrasing. He was so right. You know, my family here ALL know about my addiction and to them it is very forieng since there no opiates/opioids here. All they have to compare it to really is the Shabu (Ice) addicts here. We have one bro-in-law of Mom who was a PDEA (Philippines DEA) operative who started for whatever reaon pilfering bits from his arrests and developed a full blown addiction.

So they do understand the compulsiveness but they do not know what a true physical addiction is. They have known me for almost 24 years now so they know I have been on topiates/opioids for along time but the W/D mystifies them. I think it would be the same with all squares.

You can explain it as a"getting straight," etc. but in the end they will never fully understand it. The physical sickness coupled woth the mental W/D is diffiuclt to convey.

To be honest, isince considering your questions about Heroin OST I have been examing in depth (much more than usual) the different views around the world. The fact that EU junkies pick injectable methadone over Rx heroin shocked me.

I understand that there is the time constraint posed by injectable heroin (every 6 hours is the normal regimen, sometimes only every 12 hours) , and that methadone being a once a day administration is very advantageous, but the fact remains. Most junkies (in fact all I have known personally nd discussed it with) do opiates/opioids because of the euphoria,etc. MEthadone is chemically incapable of euphoria. This is a fact that I wish were not true. So then, why pick it?

I think that it along the lines of your view. First, it DOES give a brief rush. Secondly, it immediate sates the receptors and has the strongest affinity in that respect so maybe that is most of the dynamic.

Long term junkies live for getting straight.

I also think that amps among other alternatives should be permitted for any junky because we are not cookie cutter shapes. Individuals have different needs.

You need to detox fast and cop a ticket to a more positve nation. Most of the nations offering other forms of OST have balcklisted me, either for my felonies or my political affiliation in Israel ( I was a Kahanist in my youth, an organisatrion on the US Terrorist list). So I do not have too many options. I am basically on morphine maintenance here so I should not compain but it always seems like something is missing.

Man,you don't know much about diamorphine rxing and I've read the same studies suggesting IV 'done is prefered,but the weird thing is that after decades of use in the UK.....I've NEVER met anyone who agrees with this.

No disrespect intended.We all have our areas of "expertise."

You know about scoring in NY and I know about diamorphine rxing.

That's one of the reasons we come here......to swap information in a friendly enviroment.

[rachamim18]

Nick: It would not be the first time a peer reviwed paper was full of it. I though it mad strange that it would be like that.

Anytime a poll is used to quantify something there is a huge margin of error. In the major study I was referring to, patients/clients from a single program in a single location were used. Of course you can have little cells of one behavoir, as with the less than 500 IDUs here in Cebu City who worship Nabulphine hcl./Nubain. If one was to take apoll of IDUs there they might assume that Nubain had a universal appeal in this nation, and so on.

In taking that poll with one IDU community the outcome would naturally be biased. If you take 20 blokes off of a random drug corner, there will be a median response.

Oh, I am not offended. I really have no way of knowing what you know. However, I have been exploring OST for almost 25 years, every facet of it. Of course this is desgined to facilitate the sxchange of information. I do not look at it as an exercise in ego. I look at it as a quest for knowledge.

Just because a person has subjective experience does not mean that they are more knowledgeable. I happen to find you very knowledgeable though. I am confused a bit. You say I am wrong, but do not show how? Did you mean my comments regarding the preference for injectable methadone over injectable heroin?

If so, and you look back and examine my actual comments you will see that I myself cast doubt on the study. Stil, it exists and is being used to write policy in at least 2 nations. It certainly deserves consideration and careful scrutiny.

[nick]

Nick: It would not be the first time a peer reviwed paper was full of it. I though it mad strange that it would be like that.

Anytime a poll is used to quantify something there is a huge margin of error. In the major study I was referring to, patients/clients from a single program in a single location were used. Of course you can have little cells of one behavoir, as with the less than 500 IDUs here in Cebu City who worship Nabulphine hcl./Nubain. If one was to take apoll of IDUs there they might assume that Nubain had a universal appeal in this nation, and so on.

In taking that poll with one IDU community the outcome would naturally be biased. If you take 20 blokes off of a random drug corner, there will be a median response.

Oh, I am not offended. I really have no way of knowing what you know. However, I have been exploring OST for almost 25 years, every facet of it. Of course this is desgined to facilitate the sxchange of information. I do not look at it as an exercise in ego. I look at it as a quest for knowledge.

Just because a person has subjective experience does not mean that they are more knowledgeable. I happen to find you very knowledgeable though. I am confused a bit. You say I am wrong, but do not show how? Did you mean my comments regarding the preference for injectable methadone over injectable heroin?

If so, and you look back and examine my actual comments you will see that I myself cast doubt on the study. Stil, it exists and is being used to write policy in at least 2 nations. It certainly deserves consideration and careful scrutiny.

Naw man,we're cool and I'm sorry if I appeared rude.You're right about the studies showing folks prefering 'done.Personally,I think it says more about way they were both rxed and the studies methadology because it's very rare that you come across anyone who'll admit to prefering IV 'done to diamorphine.

Earlier I was refering to the dosing regimes.Apart from the RIOT diamorphine trial there is no dosing regime.One picks up from the chemist(freeze dried amps these days-as opposed to jacks) and shoots them where and when you want.

The UK is not like Switzerland,Germany or the Netherlands.We don't have safe injecting rooms.

From personal experiance diamorphine lasts 10 hours max and I used to shoot every 4 hours.To be honest I agree with what you were saying about good street H being the best.

[rachamim18]

Nick: Rude would be tossing expletives at me. I do not find different opinions rude at all, well maybe sometimes (smile) but it is all good. As much info as possible makes for a much better forum I think.

"Regimes." I have read about subjects being advised to dose such and such scheduale, that was my intent. I know they pick it up at the Rx, but they do not have doctor's instructions on the package/bottle? In most nations it is law (although often not enforced as in this nation for example).

Aside from that, does the UK still have a shortage of Rx heroin? Making patients switch to oral methadone from IV heroin would not have gone over easy I imagine.

[OxyContinuously]

Nick or Rach

I have a quick quest:

I was reading this thread and was wondering what exactly the difference is between injected methadone and injected diamorphine (besides one is heroin, haha u know)

---for example does the meth injected make it somehow "better" than traditional methadone liquid or tablets

--- and would there be an advantage for addicts to choose methadone (maybe they dont have to inject as often b/c of it's very long half life?) as opposed to diamorphine

--- since they are both full agonists, and would both be injected, would one have a greater ability to "hold" someone, from a craving point of view??

thanks guys, just been wondering about that for a while, cause I'm sure u both know the morphine dilemma---meaning that orally it has shitty bioavailability, but intravenously or intramuscularly is where it shines, so to speak


later all
peace out

Oxy

[nick]

Rach,the only instructions on my rxs was that I should take 150mgs a day and the usual crap about avoiding booze and not to operate mahinery.

The diamorphine shortage is about over now.When it was really bad addicts were offered 'done or physeptone-which obviously didn't go down well.They should have just given us all IV M till the diamorphine was available.

Oh and a nice story,during the shortage one of my friends got his pharmacist to order 10g vials and then split it up.The pharmacist wasn't sure how to package it for him,so the guy showed him how to make a wrap.After that he picked up wraps of diamorphine from the pharmacy-which was a far out sight.

Oxy,the main difference between phseptone and diamorphine is that diamorphine is a FAR better buzz.Physeptone's only real advantage,like 'done,is its longevity.

[OxyContinuously]

Rach,the only instructions on my rxs was that I should take 150mgs a day and the usual crap about avoiding booze and not to operate mahinery.

The diamorphine shortage is about over now.When it was really bad addicts were offered 'done or physeptone-which obviously didn't go down well.They should have just given us all IV M till the diamorphine was available.

Oh and a nice story,during the shortage one of my friends got his pharmacist to order 10g vials and then split it up.The pharmacist wasn't sure how to package it for him,so the guy showed him how to make a wrap.After that he picked up wraps of diamorphine from the pharmacy-which was a far out sight.

Oxy,the main difference between phseptone and diamorphine is that diamorphine is a FAR better buzz.Physeptone's only real advantage,like 'done,is its longevity.

thanks Nick. I figured that may be it, but i wanted to ask just to be sure ;-)

later brotha

Oxy

[Duckfeet]

Right: and when I was reading the stories of people "preferring" methadone, it was in countries where on heroin they *had* to inject in the clinic, so they couldn't have driver's licenses, and many found it simply much easier to get on injectable methadone. And their descriptions of it sound like what I would expect and just about die for. They get "well" with the overwhelming injection dose of methadone, so compared to anything else, it's wonderful....

Still, I don't have to go to England to know that injectable diamorphine trumps them all. People vote with their feet. And the biggest problem, it seems, with the "trials" is dealing with the simple fact that all the junkies want on heroin, and consider it a "bad break" to have one of the other opiates as misfortune. Again, of course it's relative....but if u know you are close to hitting the jackpot...

And also, I'm too tired to do the research, but I believe, if I understood it correctly, that in the HM trials up in Canada, that hydromorphone (dilaudid) is also being used, along w/liquid methadone...and my question, of course, is, if this is the case, who would opt for the mdone...or not feel suicidally depresses if they are stuck with it...or *not* stuck with it, as the case may be ("stuck"...get it??? hahahaha).

I think that since just the *idea* of diamorphine perscribed is so huge to us yanks, that we sometimes loose track of fact that there is huge difference between all the programs, particularly with England's program, and all the rest...

[excerpts]

There are conflicting reports/opinions about shooting methadone. Some say injectable methadone produces warm, strong rush and decent buzz, while some claim it doesn't. One British guy with whom I talked said that he likes shot methadone very much. He shot quite heavy amounts of methadone either once or twice a day. He chose injectable methadone over injectable diamorphine btw.

I myself don't have any sort of real drive to shoot methadone. Methadone has enough high oral bioavailability (about 90%) that it makes shooting pointless. And the effects which I attch to methadone are not related to shooting; in other words for me methadone's point is long, subtle steady phase, not the coming in, kicking in thing.

now wiser words, ostensibly, haven't been spoken by methadone injection naysayers. but imagine, for a moment, you carried home a split dose everyday... wouldn't that mean delayed response from what you swallowed at the clinic, as well as a rush (if you believe that it's possible) as well as instant elimination of withdrawal symptoms?

i'm just saying, it actually is possible to have your cake and eat it too. I think deep down most of these "recovering addicts" are jealous they don't have the access to the proper ingredients + tools, the beans, dexterity and experience, or self-control required to inject properly without wasting their entire take home supply (if it exceeds 1 day) and finally, enjoy it. Otherwise, I can't figure out the reason for these naysayers.

Could be different people are able to receive methadone in the brain and process it with a "rush" effect (though that seems unlikely). From what I understand most folks don't get their methadone in a clear liquid without any additives like I do, so that could explain part of it as well. I will knock on wood because I'm starting to feel preachy, but I just can't believe how many naysayers there are for an "OPIOPHILE" forum. In fact, I'd be willing to extend an invitation to anyone for more detailed information about my experiences in private conversation. ;)

EDIT: I want to clarify. By rush I mean BUZZ. Orgasm in the brain... a warm wash STUCK FEELING. and yes off methadone. If you want the lowdown difference... Methadone somehow felt ODD the first time, almost made me want to PUKE (and I never puked from Heroin in my life). I know i probably sound like a n00b because a lot of what I'm saying seems like it contradicts conventional "junkie" wisdom. the done felt "ickier" than heroin... think of the subtle nuances of downing sourmash whiskey to some fine vodka. Vodka is clearly a party liqour, where as whiskey always seems to depress me. Well it's a similar difference, the 'done felt a little like exactly what it was UNNATURAL, or synthetic BUZZ/RUSH/Whatever.

After getting used to it. I swear by it because it's legal, plus i can drink it if I want... or party. it's simply out of convenience and ease of use. By no means do I feel like i'm stuck with it though. After years of being straight, and not wanting to play the game considering legal troubles... methadone, in the right form is a GODSEND.

[excerpts]

Nick or Rach

I have a quick quest:

I was reading this thread and was wondering what exactly the difference is between injected methadone and injected diamorphine (besides one is heroin, haha u know)

---for example does the meth injected make it somehow "better" than traditional methadone liquid or tablets

--- and would there be an advantage for addicts to choose methadone (maybe they dont have to inject as often b/c of it's very long half life?) as opposed to diamorphine

--- since they are both full agonists, and would both be injected, would one have a greater ability to "hold" someone, from a craving point of view??

thanks guys, just been wondering about that for a while, cause I'm sure u both know the morphine dilemma---meaning that orally it has shitty bioavailability, but intravenously or intramuscularly is where it shines, so to speak


later all
peace out

Oxy


You said it.

You don't have to inject as much, but then again... don't expect longer half life means the rush will last longer. It may not be as intense (or harder to get a stronger rush), i.e. need for 10ml barrel becomes apparent after repeated, subsequent injections. BUT, the answer is... rush up front, and extended feelings of wellness.

Why I would choose methadone over diamorphine? Well, the option to drink or shoot is One reason. infrequency of use is the other.


But for out and out RUSH purposes (based on what I get at my clinic which is active orally and itravenously), Diamorphine wins out if the purity is there, because i remember maybe less than a handful of "rushes" that i felt like I was almost going to die, before I realized how orgasmic it was (and this was diamorphine salt dissolved in about 1ml of purified water).

[excerpts]

By all accounts, if you're tolerant to only short-acting opiates, then you will get a rush from iv done.
Its only when you stabilize on methadone (maybe bupe too) that you don't feel the rush.

there are a few trip reports on erowid of people injecting methadone and actually comparing it to iv morphine in potency and euphoric effect.
Old man Burroughs said that the first time he was shot with dolophine, he couldn't tell the difference between it and morphine and actually referred to it afterwards as 'synthetic morphine'. I will provide a link for the exact quote if i find it again (there is more interesting stuff being discussed apart from methadone in that article that might be of interest)

I've read some articles with reports of people on MMT in Austria who get injectable 'done and apparently it's much more effective than oral 'done at sustaining patients and keeping them on the program quite possibly due to an increased euphoria factor.

You've got to be kidding? Burroughs said that? haha, wow. If you read my last 2 posts before this, half of you will probably shit at what you perceive as my "attempted amazement". Honestly, this has got to be my favorite thread in the methadone section.

BTW, I'm "stabilized" on 180mg of clear liq. methadose. i still catch a nice buzz from a 50mg of injection. I guess it depends on how accurate my shooting is and how quick I can depress the plunger. It really makes a difference between catching a so-so buzz with instant withdrawal removal... versus orgasmic like buzz. Which, i will admit like Burrough's said, felt like a "synthethic morphine" the first time out. you quickly get used to that when you realize you can get it legally for life from a clinic.

[excerpts]

I wouldn't worry about doing any injustice to Old Bill - with all my respect for him, the guy is dead.
It's all other people that are still living, and report on having a rush from iv done.

If you have no (long-acting) opiate tolerance you do get a rush of iv 'done, and that is a 'medical' fact my friend.
Your comparing diamorphine to physeptone has absolutely nothing to do with it.
And just saying that other peoples' opinions are rubbish, and yours are the only ones that count is just childish and snobbish.

Come to think of it, this maybe the answer sir! Now that I think of it, I haven't actually been ORALLY STABLE on my 180mg dose ever... because I started injecting my methadone before I settled at a high dosage for one. And now-a-days... I take home twice a week because I'm too afraid I would do all of my 'done with a week's supply in 2-3 days. So the nice thing about twice a week is that even if I take a lot of my carry homes the first day, I can last off that initial drink at the clinic and buzz from injections for 2 days (depending on how much I take), and by day 3 and 4 (depending on whether its beginning or middle of the week) I'm already scheduled back at the clinic.


This is starting to make sense! I haven't drank 180mg of methadone in one day in several months I'm sure. So, this could explain why everytime I go to use, my blood level is depleted (usually start getting cramps and the runs the morning I have to go to clinic, which works out for cleaning the bowels out too). So i'm pretty happy with my situation.

ALL YOU NAYSAYERS: should just lay a day or two off drinking the done and then try shooting, you'll have a blast if you get the Clear Liquid Oral Methadose by Mallinckrodt ;) ;)

**EDIT: BY GEORGE, I THINK I'VE GOT IT! (well technically Underide had it figured out first; but conviction in his words is what helped me realize he's right and why. It really could be as simple as those of you who IV'd your done are already comfortably numb from high/stabilized oral dosages...). And to think... all you need is the right methadone material for injecting, and a day or two off to feel that old BUZZ/RUSH again).

************Anyone willing to try this out with the proper methadose/'done hcl solution should respond after experimenting ***********

[Duckfeet]

Most everything I've read is that people who actually get injectable methadone, really like it, and to me it would seem often preferable to diamorphine, simply because it last longer, but u still get the one fix, rather than drinking the koolaid piss we drink here: I think much of the "naysaying" might have to do with confusion over the types of methadone, and the inability for most of us to have any say so in the matter. I would do just about anything to get on injectable methadone, *or* diamorphine, but I've read extensively, and the places in the UK where they actually *get* injectable, they seem to like it, and some of them like it a lot...

But lets face it, *heroin* has the star power, and the clinics have also said that, that if they force the patients to take methadone for six months *first* many of them prefer it, but going in--in Switzerland, for example--they all wanted to be on heroin, because it just has the rep. Me too, I'd prefer heroin, but really have never had injectable methadone, just the little white pills, and they did nothing for me, when I crushed them up and injected them.

Much of this thread seems like apples and oranges, or, as is human nature, just defending the drug one can get...and of course, the Harm Reduction tendencies, which make us worn off koolaid fixers....

[excerpts]

i'd have to agree with "defending the drug one can get" i've been doing it for hours in an attempt to inundate the board with my positive experience.

you know, this might seem like a silly question, but are you in a clinic now? and how long have you been if so (what's your dose?). Would you be willing to experiment if, say, you could get your hands on something like i've described? Officially it's not for IV use, it's intended for oral use... but somehow does the trick. Here is a link to what I'm talking about: http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?id=897


** oh wow: I've actually found what's in the shit I've been taking, interesting:
Methadose® Sugar-Free Oral Concentrate (methadone hydrochloride USP) is a dye-free, sugar-free, unflavored liquid concentrate of methadone hydrochloride. Each liquid concentrate contains 10 mg of methadone hydrochloride per mL.
Other ingredients of Methadose Sugar-Free Oral Concentrate: Citric acid anhydrous USP, purified water USP, sodium benzoate NF.

how's that sound. So we know it's not only purified water, but citric acid anhydrous USP and sodium bezoate NF. I suppose they add those two to prevent folks from injecting it, but other than a little burning from a miss or hitting an artery, i'd say it's harmless... I could be wrong huh?

** EDIT: did a search, these mostly seem to be preservative compounds found in food A LOT. I would be willing to bet this is where the bitter taste of this shit partially comes from. Whether or not these are bad for the veins? Hard to say; would love to know though.

[irish]

The ingredients in the methadone liquid you are getting sound the same as the non-medicinal ingredients in the dilaudid amps I had. I don't know what the sodium benzoate is for, but I think the citric acid is there to adjust the ph so it is similar to blood and to retard fungal growth. This of course depends on the concentration, you should compare the oral liquid to methadone that is meant for injection. It sounds to me like they are very similar if not identical.

[Duckfeet]

Yep: I just skimmed that link u posted, and *absolutely*. I've read enough of people on injectable mdone to know I'd do anything to try it: as I did fly to Canada, willing to thro away everything in my life down here to get on diamorphine, but I have always felt that mdone would do the trick...

*if* I could inject it...and I've read your posts on here, and find them thought out, and fascinating, as again: I don't think many of us even knew what u were talking about: I actually thought u were talking about the fucking koolaid, which I hate...but anyway...I'm going to go back and read that link a little slower....

But apparently there are places like *Holland* where some of the programs provide *injectable* methadone, and they seem to be pretty popular, w/incorrigible addicts, like me...and if I keep waiting on diamorphine, I" know I'll die with the wish on my lips, but it's not going to happen, here....

I'm at 50mg methadone now, about six months, this run, but I've been in and out here over a year...and I came down from 100mg...I actually think the longlasting Oral dose is worse for constipation, and injected *might* wear off a litle quicker, which I like....

So yep: where do I sign?

Edit: Hell, I just remembered: I'm diabetic--(non - insulin), too, and often I've wondered how it could possibly be good for me to be guzzling sugar every morning...hmmm, that might be my "in". I just read that again: it sounds like it breaks down perfectly...but they are hip to people wanting to fix shit...I wonder if it's available out here??? I'll *bet* that if I push the blood sugar/diabetes thing, I might have a chance....I wonder...


i'd have to agree with "defending the drug one can get" i've been doing it for hours in an attempt to inundate the board with my positive experience.

you know, this might seem like a silly question, but are you in a clinic now? and how long have you been if so (what's your dose?). Would you be willing to experiment if, say, you could get your hands on something like i've described? Officially it's not for IV use, it's intended for oral use... but somehow does the trick. Here is a link to what I'm talking about: http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?id=897


** oh wow: I've actually found what's in the shit I've been taking, interesting:
Methadose® Sugar-Free Oral Concentrate (methadone hydrochloride USP) is a dye-free, sugar-free, unflavored liquid concentrate of methadone hydrochloride. Each liquid concentrate contains 10 mg of methadone hydrochloride per mL.
Other ingredients of Methadose Sugar-Free Oral Concentrate: Citric acid anhydrous USP, purified water USP, sodium benzoate NF.

how's that sound. So we know it's not only purified water, but citric acid anhydrous USP and sodium bezoate NF. I suppose they add those two to prevent folks from injecting it, but other than a little burning from a miss or hitting an artery, i'd say it's harmless... I could be wrong huh?

** EDIT: did a search, these mostly seem to be preservative compounds found in food A LOT. I would be willing to bet this is where the bitter taste of this shit partially comes from. Whether or not these are bad for the veins? Hard to say; would love to know though.

[Chipper]

Duckfeet, I spent many years injecting my Methadone Draught. I did, indeed, look forward to each time I used but it ended up only holding me for 12 hours and I kept escalating my dose.

I messed up, though - I was adding too much unsterile water to the mix and that was my downfall.

[Duckfeet]

Did you have this type I'm reading about: the sugarless, clear one? I know they aren't *made* for injecting, but neither is anything else I've put in my arms for the last 30 years, so I'm like "oh well" but it did seem at least *possible* unlike the koolaid, which I think u gotta be a bit wharped or suicidal to do regularly...but also the water thing...it's only last few years I've tried to use sterile water...I hate to even think of all the fucked up areas I've sucked up water from...once in houston, i was in a little store, and had my k4 crushed and in the rig, and just poked it right into a plastic jug of water...which of course, sprung a slow leak...but by then I was out in my car, getting right. LOL....


Duckfeet, I spent many years injecting my Methadone Draught. I did, indeed, look forward to each time I used but it ended up only holding me for 12 hours and I kept escalating my dose.

I messed up, though - I was adding too much unsterile water to the mix and that was my downfall.

[Chipper]

The methadone that I used had a sugar substitute in it and was tan in color. I probably didn't need to add the large amounts of water that I did.

We now can get bitter (but red in color) methadone called Biodone - which i always saw as injectable.

However, at this point in my life and due to my recent illness, I am trying to avoid injecting if possible.

[Duckfeet]

I hear u chipper: I haven't any veins left anyway, truth be known...just wishful thinking...and honestly: I don't see how anybody--like me--who shoots up fucking tar can get on a high horse about *anything* I swear, fixing *tar* for about six months, probably did more damage to my veins, and god knows what else, than years of fixing percs and tylox, and methadone pills, and bathtub crank, and anything else they had left in the medicine cabinet in whatever house I was "checking out." I don't know where I get the idea I've got any harm reduction qualities in me...I'm like the definintion of an AA sponsor: someone who has fucked up his own life, and now wants a shot at yours....;-)
The methadone that I used had a sugar substitute in it and was tan in color. I probably didn't need to add the large amounts of water that I did.
We now can get bitter (but red in color) methadone called Biodone - which i always saw as injectable.
However, at this point in my life and due to my recent illness, I am trying to avoid injecting if possible.

[excerpts]

The ingredients in the methadone liquid you are getting sound the same as the non-medicinal ingredients in the dilaudid amps I had. I don't know what the sodium benzoate is for, but I think the citric acid is there to adjust the ph so it is similar to blood and to retard fungal growth. This of course depends on the concentration, you should compare the oral liquid to methadone that is meant for injection. It sounds to me like they are very similar if not identical.

right, i was thinking around the same lines from what i read about citric acid... but then again it's hard to say, without knowing exact concentration as you mention.

I wish i could compare them, but I have only online evidence to go on... no access to the bottles from which that lovely liquid is dispensed :(

[excerpts]

Yep: I just skimmed that link u posted, and *absolutely*. I've read enough of people on injectable mdone to know I'd do anything to try it: as I did fly to Canada, willing to thro away everything in my life down here to get on diamorphine, but I have always felt that mdone would do the trick...

*if* I could inject it...and I've read your posts on here, and find them thought out, and fascinating, as again: I don't think many of us even knew what u were talking about: I actually thought u were talking about the fucking koolaid, which I hate...but anyway...I'm going to go back and read that link a little slower....

But apparently there are places like *Holland* where some of the programs provide *injectable* methadone, and they seem to be pretty popular, w/incorrigible addicts, like me...and if I keep waiting on diamorphine, I" know I'll die with the wish on my lips, but it's not going to happen, here....

I'm at 50mg methadone now, about six months, this run, but I've been in and out here over a year...and I came down from 100mg...I actually think the longlasting Oral dose is worse for constipation, and injected *might* wear off a litle quicker, which I like....

So yep: where do I sign?


Oh by all means It's HORRIBLE on constipation, man. In fact part of the rationale behind injecting this shit on the weekends is that when i run out for a day or two at least I can move the bowels without straining, though I can tell you by the time it does it's not at all healthy (has almost like an amonia smell like it's been festering for weeks, which kinda scares me). If I didn't inject and run out of take home doses for a day or two from time to time, i'd be worried that I my body was slowly dissolving this "shit" somehow with nowhere to go.

as far as signing up to my clinic... i honestly don't want to say publicly. but if you're really interested, you can use this forum to send a private message maybe?? I don't want to give out my email address here or really say where I'm from... and, i've been injecting for a while and they aren't "hip" to me at all.
of course when they do a yearly TB test i give them my CLEAR arm so they dont notice any track marks (even if they did I would say its from a few relapses).. but it's not hard to hide so long as you just TOUGH IT OUT when you run out of take home doses (asking them to replace my spills anymore than a few times a year would alert them... so I'll only do it if I'm in, or close to a full-on WD. Oh, did I mention they suspend your carry home privaledges when you do get a replacement? Yeah it takes up to a month or so to get your carry home Restored depending on your intervals of clinic visits before the replacement.

Would I move out of state for this stuff.. hell yeah, if I had decent credentials to get a job as well as a significant other who could possibly transfer and provide income. Otherwise, you're stuck looking for clinics in your area who have this type of 'done (try calling around and asking what they offer and try to come up with a good excuse why... i suppose the whole diabetic concern over the cherry koolaid works as an excuse to Why). If you're serious, find a way to prvt msg... or somewhere I can contact YOU.