At the Clnic: Junky out of Water [Archive]

Hammilton

10-07-2007, 03:42 PM

So, about 2 weeks ago I decided I had to go back on methadone. I was failing like hell trying to stay "sober" with Suboxone (12+ soma's a night, 10+ tramadols), plugging it, etc.

So, now I'm driving an hour and a half to Minneapolis 6 days a week, and while methadone has killed any urge to use anything but methadone, I'm not entirely sure I like the clinic thing.

I don't mean to sound elitist, but man- this can't be good for me. At this clinic, 99% of the patients are there for IV heroin use. I've only used heroin twice in my life, due to a lack of availability. I have to think that meeting all these junkies has to be really bad for my rehabiitation.

Also, and this is probably closer to sounding elitist than the previous paragraph, but I'm really not like these people. I'm realizing that I come from a drastically different place than most of these people do. I have an education, for one. I've never stolen, had sex or beat anyone up for drugs. I can speak in complete sentences that don't involve 18 variations on the word "fuck" and rarely use the word "cunt."

I wear clean clothes every day that are free of holes and stains.

A lot of this could come from simply having a little money, but mostly it's just having a little respect for myself, I guess.

This might sound really judgemental, but it's really not. I realize that our life circumstances have all made us who we are, and though we all share a weakness, the road we travelled there was a little different.

Some of my feelings are rather judgemental, though. I admit this, I don't know if anyone in my position could avoid it completely, though.

Honestly, though, I can't be completely neutral considering some of the things these people do.

A little background. I get there at 6am now (until next week when they begin opening at 5:30- though getting up at 4am is getting a little tiring), and even still there are about 20 people waiting, especially later in the week. We get there, they scan our ID cards, pay if need to, then they send us back to the queue to wait for the nurse to call our name and go to the dosing window.

Earlier in the week it's not too bad, I'm usually only waiting with 1 or 2 other people, but thursday, friday and saturday are a little crazy. Those days I'm waiting with about 10 other people.

At the worst, I've had to wait 10 minutes to get dosed. Usually, it's more like 3 minutes or less. These people though, they sit there and whine and bitch and complain. I just don't get it. It's all "At Metro it was never like this. They promised me that they'd open a 3rd window if it ever got this bad" or "These fucking nurses are all cunts. Can't they hurry the fuck up? I mean, some of us have to get to work!" and "I swear, that fucking julie is a cunt (substitute name of offending "cunt nurse"). She's been stealing my drugs every day. It says I'm getting 80mg, but I know what 80mg feels like, she's sucking off 10mg at least!"

Mostly, though, it's bitching and moaning about how slow they are. I mean, 3 to 10 minutes of waiting is pretty rough. And maybe this wouldn't be so bad if that was it. Okay, so they swear like sailors, are incredibly impatient and hate the nurses. That's okay, I suppose. But then they go into the dosing windows and treat the nurses like that. They cuss at them, call them bitches, accuse them of stealing, and claim that they take longer when they (whatever patient it is at the time) are up next.

The other thing I don't get is how they dress. I don't have a problem with alternative styles. Goth, Punk, Prep, whatever- that sort of thing doesn't faze me at all. What I have a problem with is these people coming in wearing shirts dirty, Kool-Aid and beer stained, holes and just all-around disgusting.

I realize junkies don't always have a lot of money, but at the time I go in only people with jobs and pay cash or have insurance. These people should have enough money to afford decent looking clothes or at least some laundry detergent, soap and shampoo, and a shower, no?

I'm generalizing a little, not everyone there is like this. Some dress well enough, and don't reak, but they're definitely a minority. What I don't have to generalize, though, is the way they talk and treat the nurses. It's just rude and crass.

I know that at Opiophile.org we have a better educated, and probably more wealthy, not to mention more civil, subset of the junkie population than you get at the clinics, but does anyone else feel the way I do?

I feel bad about it on one hand, but on the other hand, I feel bad for the nurses at the type of behavior they have to endure. Without exception, I've found every nurse I've met so far to be very kind, compassionate and concerned, not to mention capable of carrying on civil conversation.

Am I the only one with these conflicted feelings? Fortunately I live far enough away from the nearest methadone clinic and have proof that suboxone doesn't work well for me in the long-term that they're going to get me a federal exception to the daily visit rule. I don't know what exactly happens with a federal exception, but hopefully I only have to go in every other week. I know I have to have like 5 clean UAs or something like that. Maybe it's 8. I don't remember.

nick

10-07-2007, 04:31 PM

Man,most junkies are scum.Then again most folks who've never touched dope are scum.

You know what the bottom line is.....if you don't like the clinic-don't go.

SkunkWorks

10-07-2007, 04:52 PM

Totally agree.
I am a paid up lurker here, much prefer listening to babbling on about my problems but I have to chirp up on this one.
I too attend my clinic regularly and the pharmacy every day and almost without exception every fucking junkie I meet is someone who, come the revolution, I am going to hunt down and blast with my AK.
Ungrateful, sanctimonious, whining, greedy, selfish, dishonest, thieving, whoreing, dirty, piss-stained, lying fuck-pigs.
I never stole to feed my opiate addiction, fuck me I worked and paid for it and now I am just grateful that the state gives me 100mg of methadone everyday.
I say 'gives' but I mean I pay for that too - and I never, ever claim back the travel allowances or try to blag free shit that doesn't belong to me.
I know from reading here that not all junkies are scum, but by christ *most* of them are.
I fucking hate them.

Peace,

SkunkW.

nick

10-07-2007, 05:07 PM

turdkenedy

10-07-2007, 05:26 PM

its just the nature of heroin, that a certain type of person becomes addicted. and those people arent exactly the cream of the crop of society.

there are exceptions , but just think about it. just look at the heroin trade, its fucking violent as hell. no one can get enough drugs to become addicted without being a little rough around the edges, fucking a few people over, commiting a few crimes and associating with some shady figures

SkunkWorks

10-07-2007, 05:40 PM

Ever considered that they might not like you either.

I absolutely guarantee they don't.

Suits me.

Fuck 'em.

jonny-5

10-07-2007, 05:42 PM

youwonhundred

10-07-2007, 05:58 PM

yup you guys are better than us heroin addicts.

I hope to god that was sarcasm. Right now, I'm all legitimately hooked on painkillers from the PM clinic (which I'm out of till Tuesday, fuckers don't realize the first week is a blissful opiated haze, and the rest is just getting by) and maybe its just the pain of the surgery and all, but I'd kill somebody's fucking gramma for a hit. Better than the lowest of street junkies? I think not.

SkunkWorks

10-07-2007, 05:58 PM

yup you guys are better than us heroin addicts. point proven. now lets have 20 more people chime in saying the exact same thing in different words. you would think that because i have a college education and come from a good family that i would know better. i wish i could be as cool as you guys. but the ROA of my drug use is just keeping me back.

Aint about being cool, it's about not treating people like cunts because you have a junk habit. I had massive habits myself I just didnt rob anyone blind to fund them. Neither did I swan into the clinic like it owed me a fucking living and sit there whining about it.

Who was criticising you anyway, I was just agreeing with someone who said he didn't like the way these assholes behaved - I never met you therefore I cannot and would not judge you.
If you feel the need to act like a sarcastic smack addict then so be it, go right ahead if it makes you feel better.

:rolleyes:

jonny-5

10-07-2007, 06:07 PM

only criticizing those on the high horse brotha. no one in particular. ive never robbed anyone or whored myself but i do enjoy shooting up heroin. the difference is i dont see myself as anybetter than those that do.

underide

10-07-2007, 06:13 PM

Over here methadone is state provided and free.
The 'clientele' at our clinic is quite varied in nature.
There are a few homeless folks, a few spoiled rich kids still baffled at how they got there, some middle-aged professional types who you would never identify and label as a junkie if you saw them outside of a clinic, but mostly its folks from poor, run-down council estates (projects in the states) of the inner city.
The inner city council folks you see going around almost exclusively in track-suites year-round, rain or shine and for any occasion, boasting huge golden chains, rings, earrings, mobile phones round their necks, etc..
I don't particularly have any problem with the way they dress or the loud and arrogant manner in which they talk, but when you mentioned clients at your clinic constantly bitching at the nurses and other pointless stuff, i immediately think of this group of people we have at our clinic. It seems that arrogance and obnoxiousness knows no borders.
These are the type of people that constantly shove themselves ahead of the line at the dosing windows. We actually have a GA at each window now constantly monitoring the que with a list of names, according to who came first. Still, these simple folks would pester the GAs and the other clients saying: "would you let me go ahead! I have a courtcase." And they are always late for something: courtcase, funeral,etc. Some people actually let them go ahead, but i have seen the same people try this trick every time they are there.
The abuse that nurses get from these type of people is unbelievable. Here you have someone come in every day, get their dope free of charge, and god forbid a nurse at the window is just a little slow you would actually hear the person dosing near screaming "would you hurry up, for fuck's sake" as if the nurses actually owe them something. Everything is taken for granted with these people, and its the same type of people that would rip you off right outside the clinic with a bunch of dirt in a bag, and if you dare comeback and complain they will stab you and think nothing of it. Not even a long stretch in prison is a deterant to these people to fuck someone over or even kill someone for something incredibly stupid.
In other words -SCUMBAGS!

And no, ofcourse by far not all of the inner city council house junkies are like that at all. But there are some assholes that are really pathetic excuses of human beings that happen to also like the drugs that we like. What can you do

Excuse the rant

jonny-5

10-07-2007, 06:24 PM

Excuse the rant

no actaully it made me see what the point of the thread is. sorry for making a fuss. its been 24 hours since ive hade any dope and my brains not working right. my stomach either.

Duckfeet

10-07-2007, 06:33 PM

I don't know: depends on the clinic. I've never seen a group of people waiting *anywhere* that was too appealing. I'd hesitate to characterize "every junky I meet" as anything, particularly on a site that is designed for people who like opiates, and obviously are, by most definitions, "junkies." I am, anyway, and I have stolen and done other wretched stuff to get dope, in my day, but I'm trustworthy now...

Weird, because, I feel that if you're in line at the methadone clinic, you are a junky, tho many bridle at this term, and always--obviously--think it means "the other guy." But as far as Hammilton's post goes, it does seem sometimes just a continuation of welfare, people not taking care of themselves, loud inane conversations...it does remind me of what I hate about being a junky myself: other people...but of course, again, I'm one of'em. Oh well, kind of a flamey thread, but enough truth in it, too, probably...

Duckfeet

10-07-2007, 06:40 PM

I think it's just Hamm's first post, about disliking people at the methadone clinic, how he perceives them, followed up by another post, someone else saying similar stuff, maybe a little harsher. I get the point...it's just a touchy area, since many of us, including me, immediately think: "what the fuck, is he talking about *me?* I' m a junky, I go to the clinic, should I get mortally offended here!!!???" But Hamm was pretty decent the way he posted it, and even the follow-up which was harsher, might have some truth to it. When I'm a full-blown heroin shooting *junky*, I am kind of slimy...and there is also some truth, that people at the methadone clinics I'm been to aren't exactly shining examples of humanity. This whole thread will probably turn into massive flame, but so far, no big deal.... Hope yer feeling better Jonny...I know I've been dropping in dose weekly, since *I* don't like the clinic, or methadone either, and I've been on and off them for a long long time...and I'm now at 50mg m'done, and today, when I went swimming, I had that junky *cold* feeling from the water...

no actaully it made me see what the point of the thread is. sorry for making a fuss. its been 24 hours since ive hade any dope and my brains not working right. my stomach either.

NV12

10-07-2007, 07:02 PM

GoddessofRATs

10-07-2007, 07:16 PM

I think with anything there is good and bad. There are beautiful, healthy clean people out there that are rotten on the inside and than there are junkies who are beautiful, creative, clean and expressive people.

I don't know, I've never done anything illegal to get my 'pain pills' and i like to think I'm a good person but I ain't perfect.

Those people who are all dirty down at the clinic have probably been threw some down rotten times and have been through lots of crap but I also have been through a lot of crap.

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say but i do know this, i try not to judge ANYONE, And i try my best not to judge a book by it's cover.

Anyway... we all come in different shapes and sizes, we all have been threw shit ya know. Some of us adapt better than others. We are all human down inside.

Sorry.. I have barely any opiates in my system, maybe I'll chime in tomorrow after i get my refills lol.

GOR

jonny-5

10-07-2007, 07:22 PM

ya what you said wide was what i was driving at. i remember being in detox and people getting pissed off about how long dosing took. hell, i was one of them, it shouldnt take 2 hours to dose 20 people. but to get pissed off about waiting 3-10 minutes, that is pretty lame. if i only had to wait that long for the dope man, id be as happy as a pig in shit (im not from the south, is that how the expression goes?). its just some people have NEVER had the opportunity to wear new clothes, or have been denied other priveleges such as a job based on race, or whathaveyou, some people just continually get shit on by society, its just the hand they were dealt. not everyone who lives on the streets and is dirty is to blame for the fact that they are like that.

Duckfeet

10-07-2007, 07:31 PM

I'll be honest, there's some truth to this. About how people look, and not taking care of yourself, and that is kind of like:"I gotto go get my fix, fuck brushing my teeth or putting on a clean shirt." I try to be clean, and to wear clean clothes, but I live at the beach, and I'm kind of raggedy, but even how I walk, not to slouch and shuffle like the other old guys there do, since that's what I always hated about the clinic. I know whenever somebody comes in there looking nice, they stand out...and I think it's a self-respect thing: nobody usually gets on methadone at the end of a winning streak...on the other hand, like GOR and wideopensky said, we need to show a little compassion, for a lot of people, methadone maintenance is just one more bad hand they have to play, and it's easy to get despair, especially when surrounded by other people. I think one has to kind of over-ride the negative feelings. I find that people tend to kind of rise or lower themselves to meet my expectations.

GoddessofRATs

10-07-2007, 07:41 PM

Well said Duckie. I think 'Compassion' is one of the most attractive qualities a person can have.

Nighty night all.

GOR

tptptp

10-07-2007, 08:02 PM

Just a general statement, not trying to put anyone down on either side.....

I have no idea what it's like to be a junky, or have to survive in the ways some of you have. So maybe I have no right to say my opinion. But here it is for what it's worth.

It might be true that *most* of these people you speak about are despicable humans and don't contribute to society. I have been raised ultra conservative, strong religion, etc.. , where this might have been taught as well, but I have always tried to believe that good exists in most people.

So my point is, we'll never know what these junkies you speak about have lived in their lifetime. Maybe they have ended up there due to their bad decisions, or maybe not. I do not condone or defend it at all, but it's tough for me to judge someone if I haven't felt, seen, and heard as they have.

I just hope those junkies find peace and purpose in their life.

(Didn't mean for this to sound hokey..:), but my opinion just the same.)

Be Easy,
Wide

Do you use opiates? I'm assuming you used prescribed stuff but if your prescription stopped you may very well find out you ARE indeed a junky.......It depends on how you define junky. I think of a junky who could still be a regular joe 9-5 I dont think of it stereotypically anymore.

Yeah I've been to one clinic once and I felt very out of place too. The people there did seem like fuck ups but these palces are also inner-city public funded (usually) so inner city junkys with no jobs are what you're gonna run into. That's the nature of the area not junkys in general. If you go to a private clinic in the brubs the people are probably much different.

Many can be quick to judge and I've seen people write similar things and then end up on the other side. Staying afloat as a junky can be very hard. Once you're down it can be near impossible to get out of the rut. Shit happens. If your S.O dies tomorrow you cant afford your bills you lose your place whatever. Now you're a junky going to a clinic everyday and even with a low ass paying job you probably gotta pay full price, or you can not work and pay hardly anything. Even a very low paying job though you're gonna end up dishing the clinic $400 every month after taxes thats a very large chunk of your after tax money. If you're single things can be ten fold as hard too. Some people don't have or have never had parents who would help them pay for shit, raise them, bail them out of small troubles. If you're own your own - truly on your own it can be a bitch. I think most people have somewhat of a support system - family, girlfriend, relatives, friends. Not everyone came from the same background. Some people became junkys before they got a solid education to make a decent amount of money. Some never had the opportunity. Some might have had drug offenses and couldnt get loans. No parent help and no government loans and being a junky, school just isnt gonna happen.

Just realize not everyone came from the same place. Once you're down its hard to get back up, as a junky its very very hard. I'm not surprised most people at the clinuics have bad attitudes though. Imagine all the shit people talk about them - whether they are awesome people or complete pieces of shit everyone hates them/us and its only natural that after a while we get an attitude back at them.

Duckfeet

10-07-2007, 08:15 PM

...and on the same subject, I actually think sometimes the people at the clinic are the only real people I come in contact with out here. the rest of the people are pretty much "nice" people, from southern california...all have similar tolerant attitudes, all support the same causes, they wear nice clothes and all go out and protest and run for breast cancer or aids or children ... or anything else they can clog traffic up with... and I swear, I think they all vote the same way too.

Sometimes down at the clinic I feel more empathy, more like these are people who have hardship and horror in their life, and don't see life as one big happy meal. I was always more attracted to people who seemed fucked by life and circumstance anyway...SoCal is weird. and where on earth did men ever get the idea they looked like anything but sissies when they are wearing spandex bicycling costumes while riding around with their "lady friends..." Jesus...the clinic is the only place I get to see some full blown die-and-go-to-hell *fuckups*!!! Sometimes I think the men out here bought so much into feminism they actually think they are more attractive acting like girls.

EleusisII

10-07-2007, 08:20 PM

This is an old story... The raging alcoholic who despises junkies. The cokefiend who thinks he's better than heroin-users no matter how well functioning they are.

Fact is you're both addicted to opies, specifically methadone. Just that fact alone might be enough for some of the ultraconservative people to judge YOU as junkie-scum. Whether you're stealing to support your habit or not. Fuck, in the eyes of the law, when you get busted for possesion, you're no better than the other junkies.

I'm not trying to judge you. Maybe you ARE a better person than them. Or maybe you just got dealt a hell of a lot better hand in life than they had, and should count your blessings. Think about that. I mean as annoying as they are, think about what a lifetime of hustling for dope, living on the street etc. as some of them might have, might do to a person. Chances are you'd end up the same way if the tables were turned.

PS: Have you thought about going at another hour? I figure 5.30-6 that's when the most desperate fiends show up, isnt it? Hope you're nice to the nurses btw. Sounds like they deserve it!

underide

10-07-2007, 08:29 PM

Well said Duckie. I think 'Compassion' is one of the most attractive qualities a person can have

GOR

yes, compassion is certainly a nice quality to have. But compassion alone (if it is real compassion) can only get you so far in life.
There are TOO many people in this dirty business and life in general who would simply take advantage of you at the slight sight of weakness.
And i got tired of being taken advantage of a long time ago. Now vigilance and fairness plus respect for myself and others is my motto, and that means that i'd like to expect not being shoved in the back and thrown out of my own place by someone who thinks he/she is special and everyone owes them something.
And believe me, there are some people at our clinic (just an example) for whom compassion is truly a lost cause, the kind of people who would sell their own mother to get ahead in the 'que'. They are back-stabbers and abusers of those being nice to them.

Simply believing that everyone is beautiful in their own way is just too rose-tinted of a view of this world to hold. Unfortunately thats not how life is. There is alot of slime, i'm sure you know that
And i'm not saying you shouldn't have compassion, it's just not what this thread was about to start with.

EleusisII

10-07-2007, 08:31 PM

and all go out and protest and run for breast cancer or aids or children

On another note: Those people are so fucking annoying! You want to cure cancer? Fine! But running isn't going to do diddly squad for it. If you want to help out, just write a fucking check. No need to let the whole world know what a humanitarian you are, by asking me to sponsor your great deed.
I'll net you they are the same people, who always turn down a homeless dude asking for spare change.

insaneike

10-07-2007, 08:32 PM

10minutes? Good god, the clinic I go to has damn 1hour PLUS+ lines! Man if you get to the one I go to any later than 6:20am your ass si waiting AT LEAST an hour... Thank god the Dr. there gave me a pass to where I get to go to the front of the line every morning to dose because of my back :D it's sweet. Finally one positive thing comes from having this fucked back! Even if it is to get the drugs the back caused me to need! lol

This clinic is also got a couple of those people, but I noticed there are more 'avg' junkies like the type you'd see here on opiophile than the street style junkies. Like most seem to have a half assed like ya know. There is of course a good bit fo the street style junkies but they never bothered me... the only problem I have with ppl at the clinic I go to is the idiots whoa ct all wiggerish and thug like and that stupid shit. Now that pisses me off more than anything when thsoe types of people are in there just talking shit. For the most part there is half way cool people at the one I go to. They dose 300-350 patients every morning there. I drive at least an hour there and an hour abck everys ingle morning also. There are people who come from damn KY, NC, and New orleans to this clinic even! and it's all the way in se TN!

later

is_today_monday

10-07-2007, 08:34 PM

You summed up what I was thinking extremely well, eliminating any need for me to type that out.

I just want to add, here at the dosing clinic I go to, they hand out both methadone and suboxone. It's not exclusive to either. Sometimes the room is crowded with 15 people, but I've never really heard people all out bitch on how long they have to wait. They might be a bit shocked when they walk in and see the crowd, but never flame the nurses. The one thing that impressed me the most about my fellow dosing junkies, was that, when a nurse asks who is next, NO-ONE ever pushes in. They are honest and say, oh, she was here before me, or whatever. I never expected that, since junkies are renowned for their impatience. Even the more 'grubby, down and out' looking (who says they are really down and out? It's not my call, I don't know them. We judge on how people look though) hold to this unspoken law of the clinic waiting room.

I bring in magazines and pens regularly for people to read and do puzzles in, so I know that's appreciated when there is a long wait.

Things vary from country to country, clinic to clinic.

This is an old story... The raging alcoholic who despises junkies. The cokefiend who thinks he's better than heroin-users no matter how well functioning they are.

Fact is you're both addicted to opies, specifically methadone. Just that fact alone might be enough for some of the ultraconservative people to judge YOU as junkie-scum. Whether you're stealing to support your habit or not. Fuck, in the eyes of the law, when you get busted for possesion, you're no better than the other junkies.

I'm not trying to judge you. Maybe you ARE a better person than them. Or maybe you just got dealt a hell of a lot better hand in life than they had, and should count your blessings. Think about that. I mean as annoying as they are, think about what a lifetime of hustling for dope, living on the street etc. as some of them might have, might do to a person. Chances are you'd end up the same way if the tables were turned.

PS: Have you thought about going at another hour? I figure 5.30-6 that's when the most desperate fiends show up, isnt it? Hope you're nice to the nurses btw. Sounds like they deserve it!

Duckfeet

10-07-2007, 08:50 PM

I don't think compassion has anything to do with being susceptible to hustles and scams. I think it's more just a way to avoid hating groups of people, when usually, if I'm generalizing about people and disliking them, I'm just showing my ignorance. this thread started out with descriptions of large groups of people, generalizing about them because they were in the clinic line, or because they were addicted to opiates.

And of course, a reasonable response *is* to suggest that compassion is *one* answer to dealing with groups of people that I might otherwise dislike. It isn't simpering weakness, or an inabiltity to stand up for oneself. On the contrary, I find that the most miserable, angry people in private, are often people who publicly are simply *afraid* to stand up for themselves. I find that brave people are often compassionate, since often hatred of groups of people has an underlying current of fear beneath it.

I always think you should treat people as you find them. It doesn't mean "everything is beautiful," just an unwillingness to buy into group prejudices as they just don't seem honest. It's not about taking shit, but about not dishing it out when it isn't appropriate...

And I agree, this thread wasn't about compassion, it was about what idiots junkys and people at the methadone clinic were, and it would have been kind of sickening if everybody had just piled on and said yeah, yeah...those bastards... so it was a legitimate response, for somebody finally to say, that maybe we need a little understanding and mercy towards other people...In My Opinon, of course...

yes, compassion is certainly a nice quality to have. But compassion alone (if it is real compassion) can only get you so far in life.
There are TOO many people in this dirty business and life in general who would simply take advantage of you at the slight sight of weakness.
And i got tired of being taken advantage of a long time ago. Now vigilance and fairness plus respect for myself and others is my motto, and that means that i'd like to expect not being shoved in the back and thrown out of my own place by someone who thinks he/she is special and everyone owes them something.
And believe me, there are some people at our clinic (just an example) for whom compassion is truly a lost cause, the kind of people who would sell their own mother to get ahead in the 'que'. They are back-stabbers and abusers of those being nice to them.

Simply believing that everyone is beautiful in their own way is just too rose-tinted of a view of this world to hold. Unfortunately thats not how life is. There is alot of slime, i'm sure you know that
And i'm not saying you shouldn't have compassion, it's just not what this thread was about to start with.

underide

10-07-2007, 09:02 PM

^^ DF: it's just that there was an air to some of the replies as if to disbelief that scumbags exist on this planet.
Well guess what - there are plenty of them. And some of them go to methadone clinics too. I'm sure you know that yourself by now.
I did not see anyone put down junkies for being junkies on this thread, i did see people put down junkies for being scumbags though. You can be a junkie and still a decent human being too. And its nothing to do with being a lodad junkie or a homeless junkie, or a thieving junkie. As long as you have good manners and treat everyone with respect. And that was the whole point of the thread - some people have no respect for others, nurses or fellow MMT clients. And unfortunately i see plenty of such people

"I find that brave people are often compassionate, since often hatred of groups of people has an underlying current of fear beneath it."

Well i could say that I find that people exorcise their demons in their own ways, and people inclined to push compassion onto others should in fact start with the people who truly abuse the nurses on daily basis for no good reason

Duckfeet

10-07-2007, 09:16 PM

I know, me too. And I think different areas are totally different: I've been in inner city free methadone clinics that reminded me of jail holding tanks. And out here I go to a private clinic right across the street from a really popular mall, and the people are a lot different. So I know what you're saying. And I agree, sometimes people just want to sound "nice," when someone else is letting off a little steam, or talking about something totally different.... I know this last couple of times, when I went back to the "dope" lifestyle, and was sitting around with other junkies, I remember thinking, I am *so* tired of listening to these lying arrogant motherfuckers, and that when I was young I did see addicts as romantic sort of outlaws, and now, you know, just sort of sad and pathetic...so I hear you.

^^ DF: it's just that there was an air to some of the replies as if to disbelief that scumbags exist on this planet.
Well guess what - there are plenty of them. And some of them go to methadone clinics too. I'm sure you know that yourself by now.
I did not see anyone put down junkies for being junkies on this thread, i did see people put down junkies for being scumbags though. You can be a junkie and still a decent human being too. And its nothing to do with being a lodad junkie or a homeless junkie, or a thieving junkie. As long as you have good manners and treat everyone with respect. And that was the whole point of the thread - some people have no respect for others, nurses or fellow MMT clients. And unfortunately i see plenty of such people

RobotJones

10-07-2007, 09:19 PM

I'm tired of the stigma associated with heroin use. I feel sorry for those who have to live their life so much farther above those dirty, morally inept heroin junkies. It must get lonely for you there at the top of the opiate food chain. I'm certainly glad I don't have to deal with your problems.

And you think 10 minutes is a long wait? Every Saturday morning at my clinic we wait for AT LEAST 45 minutes and sometimes an hour for our dose. And they actually use your real name there? We all have 4-digit numbers that identify us for our anonymity.

NV12

10-07-2007, 09:41 PM

Oops, didn't mean to derail what the overall point of this thread was. I do agree there are scumbags, and I agree that there is good AND bad in everyone.

I don't think I have a rose tinted view of the world (if I was who you were referring to), I was just trying to make a point.

This obviously wasn't the right place to do that so sorry for the display of compassion. This opinion is one that has resulted from the experience of living with an addict.

Wide

NV12

10-07-2007, 09:50 PM

Do you use opiates? I'm assuming you used prescribed stuff but if your prescription stopped you may very well find out you ARE indeed a junky.......It depends on how you define junky. I think of a junky who could still be a regular joe 9-5 I dont think of it stereotypically anymore.

Yeah I've been to one clinic once and I felt very out of place too. The people there did seem like fuck ups but these palces are also inner-city public funded (usually) so inner city junkys with no jobs are what you're gonna run into. That's the nature of the area not junkys in general. If you go to a private clinic in the brubs the people are probably much different.

Many can be quick to judge and I've seen people write similar things and then end up on the other side. Staying afloat as a junky can be very hard. Once you're down it can be near impossible to get out of the rut. Shit happens. If your S.O dies tomorrow you cant afford your bills you lose your place whatever. Now you're a junky going to a clinic everyday and even with a low ass paying job you probably gotta pay full price, or you can not work and pay hardly anything. Even a very low paying job though you're gonna end up dishing the clinic $400 every month after taxes thats a very large chunk of your after tax money. If you're single things can be ten fold as hard too. Some people don't have or have never had parents who would help them pay for shit, raise them, bail them out of small troubles. If you're own your own - truly on your own it can be a bitch. I think most people have somewhat of a support system - family, girlfriend, relatives, friends. Not everyone came from the same background. Some people became junkys before they got a solid education to make a decent amount of money. Some never had the opportunity. Some might have had drug offenses and couldnt get loans. No parent help and no government loans and being a junky, school just isnt gonna happen.

Just realize not everyone came from the same place. Once you're down its hard to get back up, as a junky its very very hard. I'm not surprised most people at the clinuics have bad attitudes though. Imagine all the shit people talk about them - whether they are awesome people or complete pieces of shit everyone hates them/us and its only natural that after a while we get an attitude back at them.
I am prescribed opiates, and have been about 8 yrs. But fortunately I am able to use for only flare-ups (and childbirth :()) so I have never been forced to that point. So I wouldn't define myself as a junky.

prettypoppy

10-08-2007, 12:24 AM

At my clinic there are about 160 people. One nurse, one window. Never more than a 10 minute wait. I have never once in 3 years seen a fight, heard a cross word (well, ok--once, but the guy was discharged and never returned), nor seen ANYONE come in looking disheveled, stained garments, etc. There are a small handfull who have that borderline homeless appearance, but even they are polite, smiling, friendly and patient. Most of the patients look like what they are--college kids or blue and white collar workers, wanting to dose and get back to their improving lives. I have a college degree, was a medical professional (RN), and am a suburban mom with a painkiller problem, though I did do heroin briefly. I feel completely comfortable in my clinic. I am wondering why such disparity in clinic clientele from clinic to clinic?

CSiiSEQ

10-08-2007, 02:53 AM

I would think you would just feel damn grateful that the US is supplying your methadone! Aren't you a Canadian citizen? In your position, I would also be grateful that they were considering waving some of the rules due to your location as well. Who exactly were you expecting in the waiting room, it's not a board room. The fact I have clean clothes and a grad degree doesn't make me any different than any other h-user! I realize you said you were not trying to be judgmental, but honestly look at what you wrote- how do you think it reads? As far as I'm concerned, anyone with dope or morphine or whatever stuck in their arm- or up their nose or ass is in the same boat, and it's a pretty okay boat imo.

freedomclub

10-08-2007, 06:00 AM

The more stable clients only go in once a week the most stable once a month. I'm lucky to attend a good clinic also.

SkunkWorks

10-08-2007, 08:41 AM

I am happy to see that this has blossomed into a reasonable debate and not degenerated into the haves dissing the have nots and the have nots telling the haves they are stuck up their own arses.
For my part I would like to offer genuine apologies for making my first post here such a blatant attack on those less fortunate than myself.
I am lucky to be able to afford to pay for my stupid addictions, and as I am now on 100mg of methadone a day I can tell you it wasn't a couple of tablets of solpadeine or several T3s I was hooked into.
I don't wish morphia addictions on anyone, they are tough and I spent a fortune on mine. I still stand by what I said about the average theiving junkie, and as for knocking off someone's grandmother for a fix - well - fuck that, grow up eh. My grandmother was knocked off by fucking junkies and died after they came back for seconds. 92 she was.
So yeah I am a scumbag junk addict, but I damn well wont be knocking off anyones grandma for a bag - nor have I ever. I couldn't. No drug is worth that.
I guess we are all junkies here, shit why be on a site called opiophile if you aint - but not all junkies are the same.
Rant over.
No offence to anyone in particular.

Peace,

SW

underide

10-08-2007, 11:21 AM

Duckfeet

10-08-2007, 11:34 AM

Yes, I'm amazed too: as when I read the first post I thought, oh shit, here it comes... but I think many if not most of us, even if we consider ourselves "junkies" like I do, and always will, are at times disgusted with the attitudes and demeanors of other dopefiends. I know usually, when I go *back* to this world, I often think I don't like them at all, but I am one myself, so it's always a real trick to put them down, without sounding like a total hypocrite.

And along the lines of what Prettypoppy posted, I will say that there does seem to be a world of difference between the different clinics. I found that the free hardcore clinic in Columbus OH, seemed to be the worst, and where I went to score H, and to pick up new syringes from people in line, so it definitely fit the stereotype. The clinic in Corpus Christi was mixed, as it seemed there was a different crew that got the "free" doses, while those who paid--a dollar--were less scruffy looking. And the clinic here in southern cal, it seems like some of the people are well dressed and well behaved, while others still have the sort of "wannabe" gangster attitude. So I do think different clinics have different kinds of people. I think a lot of older junkies, like me, also still see being on methadone as a form of defeat, while younger versions maybe see it diferently, and that might affect how they act. Also, one does have different expectations when one pays ten bucks a pop, than when one pays nothing...at least here, they don't watch you while you pee, while all the free clinics do that, and I have extremely shy bladder....

underide

10-08-2007, 11:59 AM

So I do think different clinics have different kinds of people. I think a lot of older junkies, like me, also still see being on methadone as a form of defeat, while younger versions maybe see it diferently, and that might affect how they act. Also, one does have different expectations when one pays ten bucks a pop, than when one pays nothing...at least here, they don't watch you while you pee, while all the free clinics do that, and I have extremely shy bladder....

Thats very true, it depends where you go, and it would make sense that private clinics would be full of relatively well-off or even rich clients, who seem to be more quite and well behaved.
And where you have free state supported 'done clinics, you would almost expect some less civilized behavior from the clients that have come from underprivileged backgrounds. Again, its nothing to do with where you stand in society. I have talked to some very intelligent and polite homeless people.
Also, there is a lot of dehumanazing aspects to state clinics like ours, where they do watch us pee and seem to be strict with a lot of things.

Nonetheless, there is no need to lose your humanity and start swearing at everyone and shoving people aside. Thats just plain bad manners and i'm just tired of seeing it early in the morning before i get my dose.
I'd like to repeat that i never said that all junkies at our clinic are like that, but the people that are always have some agenda on their mind and always seem to stir up trouble and make things more difficult for staff and other clients alike.

Some nurses/doctors at our clinic have actually been physically attacked in the past with chairs, belts and the like. Now all the chairs are bolted down to the floor and you are not allowed to have belts! They give you suspenders if your trousers are too loose ant take your belt off at the security checkpoint.
The security is very strict now, and its getting worse because of unsavory characters that are addicted to such behavior.
About 2 years ago a doctor was sprayed by some asshole with a CS gas canister! WTF!? Apparently the doctor refused him takehomes after he pissed dirty.
That gupshite was jailed kicking and screaming, and rightly so. I have no sympathy for such stupid violence. I mean, what did he think was going to happen!? A dose increase!?

rachamim18

10-08-2007, 12:29 PM

Hammilton: Yes you sound VERY elitist but take heart, I was once alot like you. I was placed on MMT by the army (Israel has a big problem with soldiers and addiction and I was offered MMT as part of an ultimatum). I continued for sometime and got off when I got out of Active Duty and went to SE Asia. When I went to America a year later, got into heroin in a big way and ended up in prison for almost 3 years. Once out, and having moved to Florida, I began heroin again and to make a long story short (there is a reason for this info), I got on MMT again, this time by my own volition.

The clinic was a for profit, (Tampa Metro, of the Metro Clinics all over the South East US). Even so, I began to notice how all the clients would be there bright and early, many at 430 AM when the clinic did not open until 7 AM. I was going there, before opening, because I worked nights and it was right after I finished work.

Of the perhaps 100 people who would be waiting every morning, I found only 4 or 5 including myself actually worked or went to school.

Psychoactive use is very highly ritualised. Almost every user will tell you, and this is almost always true for daily users, that they have a routine they like to do. Perhaps turn on a favorite CD, sit just so, open the bags just so, and so on.

Once illict usage ends the user still needs to express themself via this ritualisation. MMT is a psychoactive (not a good one but I will not start about that) and it often becomes the main one in a cleint's/patient's life. The user feels a need to go at a certain time, hang with associates and share a cup of coffee at a diner,etc.

So, a person like yourself goes, sees these people who center their lives around that medicine, do not work or any other positive action, and we think how unlike ourselves they are. We say, how could they have ever sunk so low? don't they realise what they are doing? How they are perceived? In reality however we are trying to denigrate THEM, because of problems with our OWN self esteem.

We too now travel far, spend hours of our day, almost every day in this highly ritualised action that we despise for its own sake (actually despising our need for it) and we simply project it onto them.

I held this "Better Than Thou" attitude for many years. I had a counselor once in the Bronx, John Hoar from St Barnanbas who chided me in a seriuous way about my ego when he observed me rolling my eyes at some other client who was trying to scam their counselor.

He asked me if I felt that I was above that person. I asnwered something mumbled,about having been an addict because of an injury and then having been compelled to enter MMT because of career conditions. He said very simply, "There but for the Grace of G-D do go I." In other words, simply by happenstance or providence I am not in that person's shoes but it could have just as easily been me. The way I look down at them is the way squares look down on me!

After that I was forced to admit that I had nothing to feel elitist about.

rachamim18

10-08-2007, 12:58 PM

Wow, I really am suprised that so many people feel that they are above others in the very same predicament. Having been one of those same egotistical people I can understand their perspective certainly, However, judging folks for the way they dress, or manner of speech is alot different (but then am I not judging on another level?) than despising some oaf for their churlish actions?

Unerride: I have to tell you, some of the worst I have met are middle and upper class folks. In my mind's eye, those are the folks who truly feel life owes them something.

I used to get batty over people cutting in line as well and even got in 4 arguments and 2 fistfghts over it when I was the only one taking a stand on it but then I grew up. I am getting my addiction sated legally, who cares if it takes me an extra 15 minutes here and there? In the end they would not change if I pistol whipped them, right? We can only change the way WE act.

Jews have a saying I have found to be very true, "Goodness attracts goodness and evil attracts evil." If we want more goodness we have to act in that manner ourselves. I think that from seeing my own growth has helped me to understand others better as well. I matured. Sadly though, most addicts have yet to reach that place in their lives. They say in treatment that the age at which you become a heavy user is the age at which your emotional growth stops.

Most addicts got hooked in their teens. So, why should most think that addicts are going to realise the errors of their ways? It is partly the fault of the programs who refuse to treat clients/patients as adult individuals instead of emasculated or defeminised dollar signs on feet. If they set a higher standard with the alternative being Administrative Detox, most people would come around exceedingly fast.