Done legal in thailand?

[tptptp]

anyone know? with a script of course...

[Hammilton]

As I recall it's illegal to import any for vacationing, but it appears available for addicts.

However, addicts are routinely beaten and cold-turkey detox is the countries favorite program.

[oxydose]

while on the subject of Thailand, i've always wondered how prevelant kratom abuse was over there, I know its a sceduled substance and its use has been going on for centuries, I was just wondering if it was widely abused in these times, and if so what is the ROA...

Shit like that always interests me, how substance use changes from culture/country to others. Like i've read how in Columbia they sell a smokable form of Coke called Buzako or something like that, the article just mentioned that it was a smokable crack-like form of Coke that wen't for only 50 cent A GRAM!

Woooh I'd be a fucking rockstar for a whole month on a paycheck over there...

[Duckfeet]

I don't know if it's the same shit, but down in Peru, they were always selling Bazuka or Bazuko--I forget--and what it was, was the base from cocoa leaves where they hadn't yet got the final wash...it was all crumbly, looked like detergent, and tasted strongly of kerosene, and a lot of the street people were strung out on it...I did it a few times. This was way back before crack was around, and only rich people freebased...but bazuco was known to be really bad for you...really common on the streets...since the final chemical needed to make cocaine hydrochloride was ether or something like that, and really controlled... And they'ed smoke it in cigarettes--I smoked it in weed--horrible comedown. I was over in Trujillo, and many I night I'd be stuck in this hole out at Huanchaco Beach, after smoking that shit, longest nights I ever had...fuck....

Don't miss it...


while on the subject of Thailand, i've always wondered how prevelant kratom abuse was over there, I know its a sceduled substance and its use has been going on for centuries, I was just wondering if it was widely abused in these times, and if so what is the ROA...

Shit like that always interests me, how substance use changes from culture/country to others. Like i've read how in Columbia they sell a smokable form of Coke called Buzako or something like that, the article just mentioned that it was a smokable crack-like form of Coke that wen't for only 50 cent A GRAM!

Woooh I'd be a fucking rockstar for a whole month on a paycheck over there...

[scikid]

Yeah, I've read about that B whatever stuff in Columbia. Supposedly its really bad for you because it contains a large amount of a bye product that comes out from the process of making yayo. It is really cheap I guess, but I personally don't smoke coke so it doesn't get me too exicted.

I also think its crazy that alot of impoverished South Africans smoke madrake (which is actully ludes, they are still made in S.A.). That seems so hardcore.

[rachamim18]

Its been legal in Thailand for almost 8 years.

First iniated with various northern hill tribes as a way to alleviate tradional opium addiction and related growing, it was soon applied after its initial success, to Thai addicts in Klong Tooey in BK. Now there programs throughout the nation and it has halped stem the flow of both Hep-C and HIV/AIDs.

Hammilton: It is not illegal for import, I have brought it a few times through with full inspection and no problems. Some nations do not allow the susbtance point blank, like Taiwan and the one I am in but no country can prohibit any medication that is prescribed and accompanied by full paperwork (Dr info, signed decleration by Dr., list of how many uints, the total dosage, and how to be taken).

The German agency Indro provides a guideline for importation but it is completely wrong. It relies on third hand info, etc. For example, it says you cannot bring it here and of course that is incorrect.

Sometimes you need to go through rigrous procedures on paper but in reality International Law covers importation of all prescribed medications for durations of visits.

Oxydose: On Kratom. It is only really used for any reason in 2 provinces on the southern border with Malaysia. It was deemed to be a serious enough problem to make it a death penalty offence but in reality, just more Thai (pretty much most nations) missteps in its "Drug War."

On Basuco, it is a brownish paste of freebase coke that has not been dried for further synthesis.

On pricing, I have been to Colombia but not to any gorwing /farmagete regions/provinces due to insurrections.

FARC controls much of the coke trade in the south and practically all the heroin. FARC is a communist group, actually an army and state within a state. They are well uniformed , equipped, and run a stable government. If they could just stop kidnapping for cash they might be halfway ok.

While not actually gorwing or making it themselves, they do guard fields, labs, and smugglers, as well as taxing all ends of the trade from precursors on upward.

In FARC controlled areas the main form of currency is actually refined (white as opposed to the tan of Basuco) cocaine base. You can buy all things with it...going into department stores and paying with stachels of paste.

In the north the direct opponents of FARC are the right wing paramilitaries and they too are knee deep in the cocaine trade (very little opium,etc.). Cocaine base is not currecny there but it is all around people.

Drugs are legal in user amounts in the country so the prices might be 50 Cents US per gram of Basuco. I do not like stimulants so could not actually tell you on prices. Thing is, unless you were super fortunate and got in with a local you would not be paying anything at all like local prices. Most locals you might hook up with are addicts and they are not going to charge you local prices either. You might be more lucky over here. They have a form of "Ice" known locally as "Shabu" (Japanese slang meaning "Go Fast").

Prices vary from place to place but it is easy to get cheap prices even as a foreigner. You will NEVER get the local price which is about 1.50 US for a half gram of "Shabu" in my village , but it is around 90% pure so it is ok. Roughly guessing, I would imagine you might get that same half gram for 5 US dollars.

Nobody smokes Mandrake which is actually a real psychoactive botanical, a rough hallucionegnic BUT the substance you refer to in S. Africa is "Mandrax." Mandrax is an Asian tradename for Methqualone, the same active substance in Qualuudes which of course were banned in the States in the mid-80s.

Mandrax is pretty common in Asia and Africa. S. Africa does have a big problem with it. I have not heard of anyone smoking it though and do not think it would be feasible with the melting point being what it is but I guess they COULD find a way to overcome it a la heroin #3,

[underide]

.
but no country can prohibit any medication that is prescribed and accompanied by full paperwork (Dr info, signed decleration by Dr., list of how many uints, the total dosage, and how to be taken).




Japan bans it completely. And yes, it was checked with the embassy they were not very clear at the start but said they will check, then said that you can't bring any amount even if it is prescribed for pain. I do think that some unknowingly bring it into the country without thinking about it. They don't check everybody's belongings once you're off the plane, so there must be a way if you're brave enough.
Their drug laws are very strict and sometimes pointless

[tptptp]

Thanks for the info rachamim........I wasn't sure about thailand. I think its illegal in russia too, not 100% sure about taking travels there though.

I know I'd never wanna get arrested in a foreign country. It's a shame all the big H producing countries are third world's it's a shame theres not one where you could go and not fear prison more then you would here in the US....I mean with h everywhere that'd be nice!

[rachamim18]

Underride: I have brought it into Japan both times I was there. Embassies should have all relevant info but in reality they do not. Most have no idea at all and others might have bits and pieces but in the end it is irrelevant. International Law allows you to take legally prescribed methadone anywherein the world. Even if a nation did not consider addiction to be a bonafide disease, and Japan certainly does, the WHO and by relation the UN do. As long as the nation in question is a member of the UN, they have no choice but to admit you.

As I said, both Taiwan and Philippines do not allow it on paper but in reality have no choice, I know that it seems frustrating because when you travel you might not have funds to waste if refused entry but again, contact the WHO, and obtain all paperwork, you will be fine.

In my experience I have not declared it to Customs because most cCustoms forms do not list prescibed meds. Even if they so, I do not list it and rely on ignorance since again, it is prescribed. Bravery is nothing because when they do come across it, in 17 years I have only been questioned once and I offered its chemical name, not trade name (although the trade name is on the bottles most do not bother to read foreing labels). I have had the papers scrutinised but it was not an issue.

TP: Yes, it is illegal in Russia but I have brought it there once and once in the former USSR as well. I corss into Russia by land from Ukraine and again, never an issue. Interestingly, the world's largest illcit methadone (only one on record to my knowledge actually) was bused a couple of years' back outside St Pete.

On your wish...Although not a producer, Cambodia is right next door, almost as cheap, always uncut and does not enfroce illcit drug laws with anyone, including foreigners.

[underide]

^^Rachamim, i never said it is impossible to bring methadone into Japan, i did say that technically, it is illegal, and below here is proof. If thats not proof enough, i can give you a phone number of our Jap embassy..:)

http://www.indro-online.de/japan.htm

Like i said, most people on methadone for pain probably bring it with them unaware and without detection, since they don't check everyone's baggage at customs on the way into the country

Also, as far as i know, this law prohibiting done importation is relatively new (maybe 2-3 year old or even less?), and the prohibition of done may not have been in effect yet, the 2 times you visited (unless ofcourse you visited very recently)

[underide]

here's another source that confirms it:

http://www.tga.gov.au/docs/html/bringmed/outaust.htm
"Some countries do not permit certain drugs to be imported regardless of the documentation held (such as the importation of methadone or methylphenidate into Japan). If you need to take methadone with you overseas it is important that you check the importation requirements of the countries you will be visiting before you leave Australia."

^^^^that's in case you're too lazy (or self-assured) to click my links provided


I'm too lazy to look for more

[rachamim18]

Underride: Maybe we are having a communication problem. I often have problems discerning nucances in English. I know about Japense Law and have for years. I also know both on paper and by expereince that Intwernational Laws, in this case early L. of Nations agreements supercede national law on foreingers.

I travel very, very much and was on methadone for 17 years, up until July 20th so it was a problem I dealt with quite alot.

Yes, many people do bring it in unawres but iIhave been confronted on it, albeit not in Japan. I was only there twice and it was not raised as an issue. I have though been in nations where it is prohibted for al manner of importation and when producing the UN poapers I have been waved through, twice with consultation between ome person present and another by phone. Internationa Law trumps all others for foreigners but of course some determined person could probably drum up other reasons to bar a person . Either way, it is a rare problem in the real world.

If you mean Japan's law being new. Nope. I went through it in the mid 90s.

I appreciate your Forieng Ministry saying what it does about Japan's policy but I have found that a simple production of treaties to which my nation of passport (I am dual Israeli/American) and the nation I am visting are both party to is more than enough to settle the matter.

[Indy]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure international treatises protect you, since basically the UN says that "if you want to be in the UN, anyone who is a citizen of ____ country, while in Japan (for example), will be under ____'s laws, not japan's laws" MOST of the time.

It's complicated, and sometimes BS, but if you're an american, and you go to any UN country, TECHNICALLY you're still bound by US laws. It's BS, but in some cases such as this, it's helpful. Plus it's not like anyone is going to say "HMMM that shit may be legal here, but let me check if you're a citizen in a nation where it isn't, JUST so I can turn you over to them, and get nothing in reward".

[rachamim18]

Yeah bound by US law but also subject to Japanese law. However there Humanitarian issues that do have higher observance., Medication, as long as the WHO deems it a legitimate med, and they do deem OST and of course MMT to be legitimate.

If they ask what you take it for you simply claim pain to circumvent the probable BS. If they say, no it is only for addiction as they do here, you simply provide paperwork to the other effect along with International Agreements and the wHO position,etc. Sounds like trouble and it is but there are worse things, like going CT from methadone or not going on important trips.

[Saint]

Methadone, Travelling & Thailand was discussed in this thread before: http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=5229&page=2

Maybe it's of some use...

[Hammilton]

Yeah, I was gonna say- if you think you're not bound by national law while travelling, you could easily be in for a world of trouble. There are a handful of Americans in prison in Eastern Asian countries (some of whom actually *don't* belong there- and don't expect the US to come and save you if you are arrested.

Though at times, various countries countries (ie, China and possibly Myanmar, depending what your supposed violation is in the latter promoting democracy isn't a charge they'll look kindly upon) will take special consideration of your nationality.

China doesn't want to piss anyone off before the Olympics, Myanmar doesn't want closer scrutiny of it's human rights abuses.

[rachamim18]

Saint: I did not see the stuff about Thailand in that referenced thread but want to ask, what was your expereince with Indonesia.? I have gone there ops many times, all of them with it and never a problem. in fact, Jakarta and Bali now have MMT of their own. The one time I did have beef was on the ferry from Davao (here) to Sulawesi. in Sulawesi they gave me a hssle but a phone call cleared it all up and I was given a nice apology.

Underride: I cannot believe I missed the hyperlink you offered to Indro. That site is well emaning but has no relevant info, at all. Case in point, look what is says about the Philippines. in fact, they claim to want input and i have offered them all the nations I go to and they never update,etc.

On Africa, been to many countries there with it, but on your list only Tanzania and no problem. Flew into Dar from Nairobi.

Hammilton: I said as much in my second to last post but I slao said that International LAw on THIS isue trumps national law AS LONG as the nation is signatory to the agreement and virtually all UN nations are. I do not take such things lightly. When younger I took ALOT of risk on International flights and travel but am alot more conservative now.

[Saint]

Sorry, you'll have to read through the whole thread.. Some people went to Thailand without a doctor's statement (I think it was Webdevil) and didn't have any problems. Others have tricks on how to carry their meds.
As for me: I haven't been to Indonesia yet. Have been to South America, North Africa + Sri Lanka without much problems. (in Sri Lanka methadone is allowed, no problem whatsoever with a letter from your doctor).
I contacted the Indonesian embassy here in Holland WITH a letter from my doctor stating that I needed methadone but they would NOT let me in/give me a permit. They actually warned me that 'it was not their responsability if I ended up in jail'...
So I contacted the Ministry of Health in Indonesia but they also said methadone was definitely not allowed. Yes, they do have MM-treatments since one or two years but only Indonesians are allowed to carry methadone, not foreigners.
It was the director of one of the treatmentcentres, who also works at the MOH, who wrote me this. According to her though subuxone is allowed to carry (for foreigners).
I switched to subs so who knows, might finally go there next year.

You're right that indro-online has its flaws... the info about Indonesia was incorrect so I emailed them about it but it took them months to update the page and just now I see that importregulations are still 'unclear' on the site...

[Saint]

Saint: I did not see the stuff about Thailand in that referenced thread but want to ask, what was your expereince with Indonesia.? I have gone there ops many times, all of them with it and never a problem. in fact, Jakarta and Bali now have MMT of their own. The one time I did have beef was on the ferry from Davao (here) to Sulawesi. in Sulawesi they gave me a hssle but a phone call cleared it all up and I was given a nice apology.



Phonecall to whom by the way? Your doctor, embassy?
(maybe I missed something, English is not my native language).