Vinegar (acetic acid), Morphine and 6-MAM

[GMorris]

After reading the LONG thread about using vinegar to prepare pods, I've become curious about whether one can convert the M to 6-MAM using vinegar. I've got almost a whole bottle of white vinegar, and could evaporate the water out to concentrate some of the acetic acid. I just need to hear from anyone who knows a bit about chemistry. Like, would this even work with pharmaceutical M? If so, how would one go about it? How much vinegar/acetic acid to use for 30mg M, how long does it take? Is it an instant conversion or should it "react" for some amount of time, etc.? That is, if it would even work.

I just happen to like the taste of vinegar, though I wouldn't just sit and drink big gulps of it. The other day, I peeled and sliced two good sized cucumbers and put them in vinegar to soak. It's one of my favorite snacks, once the cukes have had time to absorb some of the vinegar that is. Seems to be fairly healthy too. So, I got up yesterday morning and decided to just swallow two of the IR 30's. Immediately after, I started eating a few of the vinegar-soaked cuke slices. I swear, within about 6 - 7 minutes I was feeling it like I'd done a shot almost! At this point I can't say if the vinegar made the difference, but usually it takes 30 - 40 minutes before I'm feeling it when eating the pills. I also noticed that, although the feeling was intense and I was "slammed" from eating 60mg, it didn't seem to last nearly as long. Anyone think that the vinegar made any difference, or am I suffering from a placebo effect? In any case, I KNOW that I wasn't imagining the feeling, I was just damned surprised that it hit me so fast and strong.

[katomic]

a ginnie pig!
im no chemist but i recon 10 ml of 5% acid vinager will be a healthy amount for the acetylation of 30mg, then i reocmend puting it on a gentle heat, I dont know what temp 60 C ? Anyone?
Then give us the results:)

[katomic]

oh as for time i would give it 25 min on a gentile heat, wait for it to cool a little then down it like a shot on an empty stomach.
anyone?

[Paregoric Kid]

do we really need 3 threads that deal with the same thing? acetic acid will yield some 6-MAM. acetic acid is not that great of an acetylating agent. acetyl chloride would convert more of the morphine into 6-MAM. the easiest way though would be to concentrate acetic acid from vinegar. it doesn't matter if you are acetylating opium or pharmaceutical grade morphine.
why would you swallow it, would you swallow a bag of heroin? vaporize, nebulize, or plug, or if you are using pharm. morphine you could also try snorting it or even shooting it. I mean if it really is converting a significant amount of morphine into 6-MAM it would be a waste to swallow it because of first pass metabolism.

[katomic]

Kid, didn’t you learn how to do a fair test in science? Remember lets be scientific about this. Well as scientific as a bunch of junkeys can be.
Gmorris try and take your m how you usually do.

am I wrong? But doesn’t acetyl chloride yield H (a less watched chem than the other one, oh I for get its name) or am I getting confused?
Such a scientist

Call me doctor nick (off the Simpson’s)

[Paregoric Kid]

it would be much easier to tell if it is stronger if you took it in a way that avoids first pass metabolism. you'd also have to try the same dose of non-acetylated opium/morphine. are you forgetting about the absolutly terrible oral bioavailability of morphine?
you wouldn't be able to tell much difference at all between swallowing morphine and swallowing heroin, why would you be able to with 6-MAM?
acetic anhydride has two molecules of acetic acid, acetyl chloride only has one.

[katomic]

ok as long as he takes both samples the same way it dont matter.

[SomniGod]

please post results.....



~S~

[GMorris]

Sorry about the extra thread, I discovered another similar one only minutes after starting it. As for why I would take it orally, I've found that it seems to hit all at once and really hard, even as compared to snorting. I think these Roxane MSIR copies have WAY too much filler and crap, so even snorting it usually takes longer to take effect, and it doesn't come on as fast. It's like the powdered pills have to take some time to dissolve in the sinus, then the absorbtion takes place. Not near as quick as snorting say, a K4 Dilaudid or one of the much smaller brand name MSIR pills where the M is more concentrated and you don't have to wait as long for the stuff to dissolve.

Now, what I have planned is to try and create some concentrated acetic acid, and I have already placed a small amount on top of the 'fridge to evaporate the water. The bottle says it's 5%, so I used enough to yield a fair amount, but just enough so that it won't take a long time for the evap. I've read that it gets kinda sticky when it's close to pure, so I'll judge it by that. Also, realizing that taking it orally won't make a lot of difference, I'd like to be able to combine just the right amount so that once it is converted to 6-MAM (if it'll even happen), I could just snort or even brown it. I don't know if it will yield a liquid, semi-solid, solid or what? Even so, if it will make the experience a little better, it'd be worth at least one or two tries, no?

So, since I already know what it feels like to snort it, shoot it and eat it, it won't be hard to tell if there is a difference once (if) I manage to get it right. I love the feeling of Morphine in general no matter how I ingest it, but if I can increase the experience I'm willing to experiment some. We don't have an endless supply, but there is enough to allow for some playing once in a while. I just want to make sure I do the "experiment" correctly at least once! Never got a chance to take a chemistry course, but I had one of those kiddie chemistry sets when I was little. It didn't help me learn much at all except how to make things change color and/or create a lot of smoke.

[Paregoric Kid]

if you are going to concentrate the vinegar after you are done reacting it with the morphine you should definitly evaporate it down to powder because acetic acid can burn you.

[GMorris]

Actually, I had planned to reduce the vinegar BEFORE trying to react with the pills. Once that works (if it does anything at all), I'll see what I have to do to get it in some kind of safe form. I was hoping that someone would have some kind of idea as to how much of the acetic I'd need to use. No sense using too little, then it definitely won't work. No sense using too much, then you've got an acid mess. Which was the main reason I started the thread in the first place, hoping someone might have a good idea. I've even considered whether the concentrated acetic acid will be dangerous to handle, much less put into an orifice. It only stands to reason that it might burn the skin, it just seems weird to me that once it's diluted to 5% it's safe to ingest in small amounts, but I guess you have to consider that stomach acid is actually dilute hydrochloric, which WILL seriously burn through shit with no problem. I want to live and learn, the key here being live. Thanks everyone for all the input so far!

[Paregoric Kid]

there should be a scientific, medical, or patent paper online somewhere with that kind of information. I'll see if I can find it.

[devilsdrug]

i posted this before concentrated acetic acid other wise known as glacial acetic acid ( thick stuff) is the working incredient in many wart, corn ect. medication in that it dissolves the tissue applied to, i would say care must taken with any preparation involving this chem as in check ph before using

[GMorris]

OK, if anyone is still following this, I've now got my vinegar evapped down to a gooey substance which I will assume for the moment is plain old acetic acid. Now, in order to do this correctly I considered that I will also have to figure out a way to isolate the almost pure Morphine Sulfate rather than to try and do it with all the filler shit that is in the pills. It took me a while of plotting and scheming, but I believe I've found something that works.

So I've got about a dozen clean, brand new fits still in the plastic wrap. Even more of the screw-on needles that are almost perfect for IV, by the way. Problem in the past was filtering the fillers out completely, and I didn't like trying to shoot them because a cotton just won't get it clear and that shit gets in the lungs. Then it hit me: coffee filters! Next obstacle was how to use the things to actually filter. I figured they would work a good deal better that plain cotton, as I've used them to filter many things in the past. What I finally ended up doing was to pull off a piece about 20 - 25mm square. I'd take that piece and twist it as tightly as possible, then feed it into an empty syringe (without needle of course) from the end inward. Once most of it is inside (and it's toward the end so I can't feed much more in), I put the plunger back in and flatten it down at the end of the syringe and use scissors to cut off the excess outside. I thought of this after reading about wheel (micron) filters and how they work, though I've never used one myself. As it turned out, I then had just enough coffee filter material to push the sludgy stuff through. First, I tested it out to see how easy fluid would pass with the filter all bunched up like that. I used rubbing alcohol, as this would also help sterilize it, and it pushed right on through like it was nothing. Once all the alcohol was pressed out, the filter was wet and even MORE compacted, so I've got high hopes for this method. Next, I cracked one MSIR 30 in half and popped it down the barrell, added sterile water to about halfway (these are 3ml jobbies) and shook for a bit to get it completely dissolved. Then I opened another syringe and a needle and attached the two, put the cover back on and proceeded to push the mixture through my makeshift filter. Lo and behold, the solution that went into the other fit looked as clear as the sterile water did! I put the plunger back in THAT one and set it aside for the time being. Now I pulled the plunger from the original one and tapped the filter and filler back out to examine it. The filler was compact and barely wet (I'd used a LOT of force when I got to the end to try and get it all out), so I ate it just in case there was any goodies left in it.

OK, now I have a brand new fit with about 1.5 ml of morphinated sterile water, which I could then transfer to some small container and evap to get M. Sulfate, right? Well, almost right. You can probably tell where this is going, eh? Normally, I would do that to get the MS as pure as possible and to prepare it for reaction with said acetic acid, but in the interest of science I just HAVE to find out if it's for real or not. Into the vein it went. Once I did that, I realized that, yeah, that was a good bit of MS in there, but I still wasn't convinced so I repeated the entire process again!

Now if I can just do this with 2 or 3 of those fuckers and manage to resist the temptation to slide it in the arm, I can then evaporate it and continue with the experiment. If it works and I can get it to a neutral ph, I'll try snorting it to see if there is any difference or improvement (ie, has it changed into 6-MAM). I really don't want to ruin 60 - 90mg of good morphine, so I'm gonna proceed with caution. That filter technique is really great though, I was amazed that it came out so damned clear!

I'll keep you all posted as to the success or failure of this "experiment". I'm gonna do some research now to see if I can find out how much of what to use, for how long, etc. so I don't screw this up too bad...

[bogumil]

There is a way to make up acetic anhydride with I think aceticchloride and sodiumacetate or with acetic acetate and sodiumchloride, I dont know which way round. Also, there are carpolishes that contain acetic anhydride.

I read about that just recently and copied it here, so I dont know, if it would be possible at all to get the acetic anhydride out of the polishes or if the reaction of the two above reagents is a too big thing.

Anyone an idea?

BTW The filtertool sounds great.

[dan46]

If someone could tell me how to get to poppies.org ---as I cant find it now
I will pull up old posts on there I have of using glacial acetic acid to convert
the mud to gold with an inverted condensor but damn if I can find my old haunt I used to get to
once or twice a year

It's gone!

anyone?

if you know where I can get the chem archives for poppies.org please let me know as I was referring people to it and it was
GONE

dbcooper3390ATyahooDOTcom
thanks

[exitwound]

The main poppies.org site has been down for a while now. The Porg forum, http://opium.poppies.org/ has been unreachable today but is usually online.