PDA

View Full Version : Is it really 6-MAM ?



katomic
12-08-2005, 02:09 PM
We'v all sen the good reports of somni's Stinky Tea but we need more proof that the conversion is actually happening!
I and many others have used vinegar due to it availability in poppy tea, but have not gotten results interesting enough to post, is it the alcohol that sets it off?
Potentially, if true this could mean anyone on a morphine script could quite easily double the strength of there script!
Im not trying to put anyone down but I am trying to be a little scientific about this.
There are loads of other questions to answer like

Does the acetylation happen?
What temperature does the acetylation happen?
How much 5% acetic-acid is needed per 10mg morphine is needed to make 6-MAM?
Etc etc
Any scientific papers would be great.

We need some ginnie-pigs 10 would be nice but 2 might be more realistic someone who takes a strict daily dose of morphine who really knows how they fell when they take ??mg and who is willing to try the supposed conversion to 6-MAM for a few doses/day

Anyone?

Paregoric Kid
12-08-2005, 03:30 PM
hey I would gladly be a guinea pig.
you want to use the strongest concentration of vinegar, I think you can buy it up to 17 or 18% acetic acid. if not you could always boil the vinegar down, which would give you a stronger concentration. the best way to do it would be to get pure acetic acid or acetyl chloride or acetic anhydride.

devilsdrug
12-08-2005, 05:25 PM
pure acetic acid otherwise known as glacial acetic acid is very thick as found in your basic wart corn ect dissolver and whatever else they put in there dont know

paesan
12-08-2005, 08:49 PM
I got a couple questions: If you acetylate something do you get back the same weight you you had before you acetylated??? For instance if you had 100 gm's of Morph and you boiled it in Acetic Anahydride would you get 100gm's of Diacetylmorphine??? Or since it's aprox. 4X as potent as Morph would you only get 25gm's of H. Does acetylization (correct term???) concentrate the M and therefore reduce the overall quantity or just change the molecular structure thereby making it more potent???

Also what would happen if you cooked pod grinds (or tea or putty for that matter) by themselves in Acetic Anahydride (sp) would it yeild something interesting??? I've been curious to see what would happen...Could I do that and then reduce the pods down to a putty for smoking??? Help me out here guys...I may try this anyhow.

Paregoric Kid
12-08-2005, 10:42 PM
it adds an acetyl group to the structure, this lets it cross the blood brain barrier more easily.

Coddfish
12-08-2005, 10:51 PM
I don't know the chemisty of that reaction in particular, but think "numbers of molecules." For example, I think diacetylmorphine has two acetyl groups added to morphine (more or less?), so the VOLUME would be the same for both compounds(because all molecules are roughly the same size when considered in a 100g pile), but the MASS/WEIGHT would be heavier for the H. To get the theoretical weight for the product, you would add the weight of the original morphine and the weight of ALL the acetyl groups that join in the reaction. After the reaction, you'd have the same # of opiate molecules you started with but each one would be heavier by the weight of two acetyl groups. Soooooo. . . The H would look like the same amount of M you started with but would be heaver.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it, until people that are smarter tell me I'm wrong. This goes into moles and all that crap, stuff I just can't remember very well.

paesan
12-09-2005, 02:54 AM
So what ya sayin is that you'd yeild more due to the added acetyl molecules??? But if H metabolizes into M wouldn't you end up with essentially the same amount of M you had to begin with??? Cuz H is roughly 4-6x as potent as M (we'll use 4x as an example) wouldn't (for instance) 25mgs of H metabolize into what would have been 100mgs of M??? Honestly to me it just doesn't make sense that you could take 100gms of M and by acetylating (acetylizing...whatever the term is) yeild essentially the equivalent of 400gms of M. That's why I figured you'd need 100 mgs of M to get 25mgs of H.

I know H weighs more so I kinda figured that was due to the added acetyl molecules as well as the M being more concentrated. I also know that H crosses the BBB about 100x as fast as M (which accounts for the rush) but as for it's overall potency I'd think it would be the same...unless you're concentrating down to a much stronger product, i.e. making 100gm M into 25gm of H.

OK I'm noddin out right now and starting to confuse the shit out of myself so I'm gonna finish by asking one more thing & if you're absolutely certain just give me flat yes or no: By acetylating M you'll get more H mg for mg than you had M to begin with???

katomic
12-09-2005, 02:39 PM
i allways thort H is twice a powerfull it just gets into your brain quicker then becomes M and and to a lesser extent 6-MAM, H has a half life of like 5 min.
you would not lose ou making H from your M or 6-MAM
nod

Coddfish
12-09-2005, 07:39 PM
Paesan,
this making 100 into 25 gms is just not thinking 'chemically.' You are thinking concentration, like M is concentrated into H. H's chemical structure makes it more potent, not the fact that it has four times the M in it. If it was a matter of concentration, then there would be no real reason to convert. We could just get an M 'still' to concentrate it like moonshine is without worrying about chemical processes that are a pain in the ass to carry out.
In answer to your last ?, I am pretty sure I am right on this about the weight increase, but I cannot find the chemical reaction of M to H to do the calculations. BTW, that is theoretical yield not experimental, ie., there will ALWAYS be a loss of product because the reaction will never be %100 complete, it's just the way chem. rxn's are. So, 100g M might yield, say, 120g H on paper(just a guess), but only 90 in the lab. I have looked for related info without success, but will do so again to try and help. I would think others here can back me up with more concrete stuff?


BTW, as I was searching I found a d e a website that mentions what the piggies do to get evidence from computers. It's not a lot of info, but it looked like there was a regular 'computer' section to a d e a newsletter. Makes me want to be careful here.

superman
12-13-2005, 02:30 AM
i'm thinking that this process doesn't make diacetylmorphine. and even if it did convert a small amount(and it wouldn't convert much if any), taking it orally wouldn't work very well as it's converted back to morphine before it reaches the bloodstream. SO, if this anecdotal evidence of increased potency is actually true, is it worth consuming the residual acetic acid that is definately in your final product? probably not.

I think there's a possibility that some other alkaloids might be acetytlated and could account for the supposed increase in potency. but there's also the possibility of toxic compounds being produced as well.

IMO a safer approach to this line of opiate chemistry would involve first isolating pure morphine and then acetlyating it with acetic anhydride. of course any chemical synthesis should always be followed by an acid-base extraction and subsequent recrystallization.

crude chemistry using unpurified reagents and unpurified end products is dangerous and could have cumulative effects. just my $.02

Be safe while having fun!

Paregoric Kid
12-13-2005, 04:18 AM
with acetic acid you are adding ONE acetyl groupe so it is monoacetyl not diacetyl, no you can not get heroin from adding one acetyl group but does it really matter 6-MAM is equal to or stronger than heroin. acetyl chloride would probably be better than using acetic acid.

paesan
12-13-2005, 11:04 AM
Hey Coddfish thanks bro. I fully understand now that it's the change in molecular structure, not the concentration that increases the potency. I just wasn't sure about it as I may be functionally retarded.

Coddfish
12-13-2005, 03:42 PM
At least you got the "functionally" going for you. I wonder if I have that sometimes. If stupid is as stupid does, I am one stupid SOB. But. . . it could ALWAYS be worse.:)

paesan
12-13-2005, 05:02 PM
yeah I'm also afflicted with a terrible disease called LBS or Lazy Bastard Syndrome...it pretty much inhibits me from ever getting up off my ass. I'm sometimes so lazy that I debate just peeing where I lay rather than getting up to go to the bathroom. I'll start weighing pros and cons "Well it'll be warm at first...and then nice and cool. But it's gonna smell like ammonia...buuuuuut maybe it'll mask that smell of brain rot and sour ass (I wonder where that's coming from???)...maybe not. I wonder if it'll keep the vampires away????"