Is one better than the other?

[2HI2C]

I've been taking Methadone for a week and a half, but it's simply NOT working out for me. I am going to see my doctor on Monday and am going to ask him to switch me over to one of the ER forms of Morphine, (one of the only meds I've never tried during my 5 yrs of back surgeries). Since I had an issue with OC, my wife is against me going back to it, and is more comfortable with the Morphine ER since it's only a once a day med.

So, my question is...with all the different products out there, is one better than the other? MS Contin, Avinza, Kadian, etc...??? Also, just laying it out there, I will learn how to IV these, as I've read that taking them orally is pretty much pointless! Is one of these better for IV'ing, or are they all pretty much the same?? When comparing IV morph to IV oxy, how close are they? I was doing OC 40mg REGULARLY. If I can get on the 60mg or 90mg morph ER's is the effect <, = or > OC?

I'll do a search on IV'ing morph before I ask any of the "how to's", but I'm sure I'll have some questions.

My Dr is VERY cool, and I know if my wife is comfortable with switching over to this, he will do it, so I was SO relieved when she said she would like me to switch over to Avinza (or one of the ER Morph's)...YES! I'm also going to ask for a few b/t meds during the day, and he's always given me the 15mg Oxy IR's. Even if I get 3 of those babies it'll be worth it...

[Dirtyrockstar]

apologies for not knowing the US trade names as the majority of you are american im sure.

They say that 80mg oxycodone is equivalent in its analgesic properties to 100mg of morphine.

MS contin is good but has the time release thing going. if you intend to iv, any conti's smaller than 100mg have extra lactose and binders in em. When iv-ing conti's use alot of water and filter well, hell filter twice, u dont wanna get that glue shit in ur veins.

The best for IV are the IR pills like anamorph rather than the ER coz theres less shit in em. I get Kapanol which is supposed to be ER but they just put the morph sulfate n sugar in lil balls so SMASH SMASH go the balls and there goes the time release factor.

Some ppl say OC is more like the feeling of H whereas MS feels like barbed wire running thru ur veins, personally i like em both and think the itch is half the fun.

[flipside]

If you are going to be IV'ng them..I would go for the Kadian..they have been the easiest ER IMO to work with.

The Buzz from mophine and OC is totally different IMO, MS more sedating OC much more euphoric and energetic.

As for dose..that's going to be someting you'll have to experiment with.conversion charts are great..but everyone reacts diferently.

Please tell me your not first time IV'er?

[2HI2C]

apologies for not knowing the US trade names as the majority of you are american im sure.

They say that 80mg oxycodone is equivalent in its analgesic properties to 100mg of morphine.

MS contin is good but has the time release thing going. if you intend to iv, any conti's smaller than 100mg have extra lactose and binders in em. When iv-ing conti's use alot of water and filter well, hell filter twice, u dont wanna get that glue shit in ur veins.

The best for IV are the IR pills like anamorph rather than the ER coz theres less shit in em. I get Kapanol which is supposed to be ER but they just put the morph sulfate n sugar in lil balls so SMASH SMASH go the balls and there goes the time release factor.

Some ppl say OC is more like the feeling of H whereas MS feels like barbed wire running thru ur veins, personally i like em both and think the itch is half the fun.

Thanks, DRS!

Well, that sounds promising...if I can get him to prescribe the 90mg version, then I should be pretty good. I would LOVE to get the IR form, but since I'm being prescribed for pain, I need something that lasts most of the day (technically). My wife is comfortable with this because it's only ONE pill a day (no questions asked), whereas, when I was on OC, I was taking (IV'ing) 3 - 40's a day along with several b/t oxy IR's.

If it works out like I'm thinking it will, I'm NOT going to fuck it up this time... (fast forward one month...) Shit...fucked it up again... Got caught stealing my own medicine from the locked box! :)

You can't imagine the feeling of "HOLY SHIT" I felt when my wife walked into my study just as I had registered my shot...at 4:30 in the morning...she's standing there looking at the needle sticking out of my forearm. UGH! Ain't gonna do that again. I got way too cocky/careless...

[Dirtyrockstar]

dont feel bad we all fuck up sooner or later.

I can manage on one 100mg morph pill per day if i behave, i can even go two days on one pill if things are bad, but ive noticed that everyone i know on OC cannot help but have "just one more" and before you know it they're gone.

One friend of mine stashes half his tabs away at his mums house, which is on a farm 18km away so no 4:30 am joy for him. haha.

[2HI2C]

If you are going to be IV'ng them..I would go for the Kadian..they have been the easiest ER IMO to work with.

The Buzz from mophine and OC is totally different IMO, MS more sedating OC much more euphoric and energetic.

As for dose..that's going to be someting you'll have to experiment with.conversion charts are great..but everyone reacts diferently.

Please tell me your not first time IV'er?

Thanks for that, Flip! That's exactly the info I'm looking for!

Unfortunately, NO, I'm not a 1st timer.

I've been on a morphine pump in the hospital several times and really liked the buzz. (Of course, I REALLY like OC for the energetic high it gives, but if I can get on the ER morph, than I'll take it!)

[Inspektahdek]

dont feel bad we all fuck up sooner or later.

I can manage on one 100mg morph pill per day if i behave, i can even go two days on one pill if things are bad, but ive noticed that everyone i know on OC cannot help but have "just one more" and before you know it they're gone.

One friend of mine stashes half his tabs away at his mums house, which is on a farm 18km away so no 4:30 am joy for him. haha.

that's actually pretty smart, I should do something similar lol

[antigonemuse]

if your gonna bang prepare for an evil rush man... it feelslike someone is stabbing you in the heart, fingers and toes all at once...

or maybe im just doing to much, hmmm?

[2HI2C]

if your gonna bang prepare for an evil rush man... it feelslike someone is stabbing you in the heart, fingers and toes all at once...

or maybe im just doing to much, hmmm?

I've been reading through the Morphine posts, and it seems people get to a place where they actually LIKE the rush. Sounds a little spooky having been on OC. I LOVE the rush when shooting OC, so I hope I can get used to the morphine rush!

[matfield]

You can't imagine the feeling of "HOLY SHIT" I felt when my wife walked into my study just as I had registered my shot......


Unfortunately i CAN imagine:(
Northing worse than getting caught shooting by your SO who has nothing do with drugs

[2HI2C]

Unfortunately i CAN imagine:(
Northing worse than getting caught shooting by your SO who has nothing do with drugs

So...you have a similar story, Matfield? After 21 years of marriage I thought it was all over right there. It was my Doc who really spoke into it and helped her see what's going on. "none of us can know how we would react to being in constant pain for years. Think about it. What would you do to get some comfort?" He's totally cool. Well, not TOTALLY. He put me on Methadone so I wouldn't continue to fuck up. I'm hoping to get that decision overturned this afternoon. Hoping he'll get me off of this. I've never felt as shitty as I have these past 2 weeks. I just can't take it any more...

[2HI2C]

So...you have a similar story, Matfield? After 21 years of marriage I thought it was all over right there. It was my Doc who really spoke into it and helped her see what's going on. "none of us can know how we would react to being in constant pain for years. Think about it. What would you do to get some comfort?" He's totally cool. Well, not TOTALLY. He put me on Methadone so I wouldn't continue to fuck up. I'm hoping to get that decision overturned this afternoon. Hoping he'll get me off of this. I've never felt as shitty as I have these past 2 weeks. I just can't take it any more...

He game me 30mg MS ER x 2 and 15mg MS IR x 3 for this week. Told me to come back on Friday and, "we can go up from there. It's always easier to go up than down. I know you have a pretty good tolerance, so let me know how you do..." SWEET!

The ER's are Ethex. I'm going to try and prepare them like I did OC. I think that'll work from what I've read...

Cool...

[antigonemuse]

He game me 30mg MS ER x 2 and 15mg MS IR x 3 for this week. Told me to come back on Friday and, "we can go up from there. It's always easier to go up than down. I know you have a pretty good tolerance, so let me know how you do..." SWEET!

The ER's are Ethex. I'm going to try and prepare them like I did OC. I think that'll work from what I've read...

Cool...


yum ethex .... the instant release? those are great for banging... never had the ER's

[2HI2C]

yum ethex .... the instant release? those are great for banging... never had the ER's

Yep! Eethex for both.

Shoot, the ER's TOTALLY gelled up on me! (they're pink footballs) Is the only way around this to crisp them? The longer the powder sat in the water in the spoon the thicker it got, so I'm thinking there's no other way...

The 15's together felt pretty good, but I got new (different) needles from the exchange here in town, and I'm not used to 'em. That and it's been a while. Also, I wasn't aware of the fact that you need to untie BEFORE dropping the plunger! When I went down to the needle exchange on Sat, I got a tie, so that was a little awkward, too. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it again.

I will search through the posts for preparing MS ER's for shooting, but if anyone has any tips, please let me know.

[OxyContinuously]

Yep! Eethex for both.

Shoot, the ER's TOTALLY gelled up on me! (they're pink footballs) Is the only way around this to crisp them? The longer the powder sat in the water in the spoon the thicker it got, so I'm thinking there's no other way...

The 15's together felt pretty good, but I got new (different) needles from the exchange here in town, and I'm not used to 'em. That and it's been a while. Also, I wasn't aware of the fact that you need to untie BEFORE dropping the plunger! When I went down to the needle exchange on Sat, I got a tie, so that was a little awkward, too. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it again.

I will search through the posts for preparing MS ER's for shooting, but if anyone has any tips, please let me know.


yep be careful, brotha-- if u dont untie first, u can collapse the vein.

[2HI2C]

yep be careful, brotha-- if u dont untie first, u can collapse the vein.

Certain places I don't even need to tie off, like on my forearms, ankles & feet. But to get the hang of it I did use the tie just below my elbow this time. It will take some getting used to that's for sure.

I was using a large (thick) rubber band doubled over before today. After I did the shot, I would quickly lift up the rubber band from my arm to let the pressure out, but obviously, knowing what I now know, it was already too late! I'm just thankful I didn't get hurt.

My wife's going out with some friends later, and I'm just drooling. I want to try and get a good shot, so any help with the gellin will be awesome! (I found more info doing a search, but I'm still not sure. I wonder if the material has changed from when some of the posts were made??? No? It wasn't at all waxy, it was WAAAAY gooie. I don't want to waste too many more of these with a science experiment! :)

[antigonemuse]

while i would never advocate shooting the ER's, there is a mothod that works to rid the gel

remove coating, and make sure pill is dry before crushing finely... put into a large spoon, like a table spoon... add water so the gel is loose, not just a blob... this takes more water then normal... using a torch or and electric burner on stove on high heat, cook gel mixture til the gel seperates, leaving water solution below. use a butter knife to push the residue aside and place cotton in and filter into syringe...

you need real high temps to do this.... lighters dont quite do the trick in seperating all the crap. You will lose some of the morph wit the heat, but not much. Do not heat for too long... and try not to remove prematurly. the gel that seperates with look like a foamy, solid white mass floating ontop of the water / morph solution. draw it up hot, as once i t cools, the gel solution melts back down to a loose blob. You can refilter gel solution again using the same method. So long as it is still bitter, there is still morph in the spoon. WAIT TIL SOLUTION COOLS ENOUGH TO SHOOT, BUT DONT LET IT GO COLD, AS IT WILL GEL BACK UP A BIT

let me know if you have any questions

FYI - I REALLY DONT ADVISE SHOOTING PILLS THAT GEL UP.... THE SOLUTION WILL ALWAYS HAVE SOME EXTRA BYPRODUCT IN YOU SHOULD HAVE IN YOUR VEINS

[antigonemuse]

while i would never advocate shooting the ER's, there is a mothod that works to rid the gel

remove coating, and make sure pill is dry before crushing finely... put into a large spoon, like a table spoon... add water so the gel is loose, not just a blob... this takes more water then normal... using a torch or and electric burner on stove on high heat, cook gel mixture til the gel seperates, leaving water solution below. use a butter knife to push the residue aside and place cotton in and filter into syringe...

you need real high temps to do this.... lighters dont quite do the trick in seperating all the crap. You will lose some of the morph wit the heat, but not much. Do not heat for too long... and try not to remove prematurly. the gel that seperates with look like a foamy, solid white mass floating ontop of the water / morph solution. draw it up hot, as once i t cools, the gel solution melts back down to a loose blob. You can refilter gel solution again using the same method. So long as it is still bitter, there is still morph in the spoon. WAIT TIL SOLUTION COOLS ENOUGH TO SHOOT, BUT DONT LET IT GO COLD, AS IT WILL GEL BACK UP A BIT

let me know if you have any questions

FYI - I REALLY DONT ADVISE SHOOTING PILLS THAT GEL UP.... THE SOLUTION WILL ALWAYS HAVE SOME EXTRA BYPRODUCT IN YOU SHOULD HAVE IN YOUR VEINS

IF YOU ARE GONNA DO THIS, I ALMOST WANT YOU TO CALL ME TO WALK U THRU...

[2HI2C]

IF YOU ARE GONNA DO THIS, I ALMOST WANT YOU TO CALL ME TO WALK U THRU...

Ummm...I can only make collect calls from jail. Will you accept the charges? heh...

[2HI2C]

IF YOU ARE GONNA DO THIS, I ALMOST WANT YOU TO CALL ME TO WALK U THRU...

AWESOME, AWESOME, AWESOME!!

That was cool. Thanks for your help. Talk about harm reduction. (and making sure a brother doesn't waste a shit load of pills along the way), that was great!

Good Karma your way!

[antigonemuse]

dude you need to post and let me know how it went. I need to know i didnt steer you into an OD friend

Glade I could help, and you didnt have to waste any of the precous pills...

My charge.... lol well I think about 90mg of IR morph will do

:D:D:D

peace brudda

[2HI2C]

dude you need to post and let me know how it went. I need to know i didnt steer you into an OD friend

Glade I could help, and you didnt have to waste any of the precous pills...

My charge.... lol well I think about 90mg of IR morph will do

:D:D:D

peace brudda

I didn't OD! I think you were right. Having done several shots in a row, I didn't quite get the buzz I was after. Well, that and the fact that these rigs are only 1/2cc, so it makes it a real bear to get enough for a good shot. I'm going to stop at Walgreens tomorrow for some supplies... 29g 1cc's and one of those lighters that can keep burning in a full wind (the kind that sounds like a miniature jet engine). I think that ought to be able to get the spoon hot enough/fast enough. (I do the majority of shooting at work in the men's bathroom. My home is a ultra conservative, right wing, make donations to gov's war on drugs, etc, etc, etc... I get my arms checked at the door upon entering...really! But the weather is starting to cool down here in the upper midwest, so slippers seem VERY appropriate, aaaaaaand seeing I've got KILLER veins on my ankles and tops of my feet, no need to use the arms for a while...:) My wife is TOTALLY cool in so many ways, but she is a diehard prohibitionist... ugh... opposites attract. yeah, right.

[antigonemuse]

I didn't OD! I think you were right. Having done several shots in a row, I didn't quite get the buzz I was after. Well, that and the fact that these rigs are only 1/2cc, so it makes it a real bear to get enough for a good shot. I'm going to stop at Walgreens tomorrow for some supplies... 29g 1cc's and one of those lighters that can keep burning in a full wind (the kind that sounds like a miniature jet engine). I think that ought to be able to get the spoon hot enough/fast enough. (I do the majority of shooting at work in the men's bathroom. My home is a ultra conservative, right wing, make donations to gov's war on drugs, etc, etc, etc... I get my arms checked at the door upon entering...really! But the weather is starting to cool down here in the upper midwest, so slippers seem VERY appropriate, aaaaaaand seeing I've got KILLER veins on my ankles and tops of my feet, no need to use the arms for a while...:) My wife is TOTALLY cool in so many ways, but she is a diehard prohibitionist... ugh... opposites attract. yeah, right.


watch it with the feet, you shouldnt use injections so far below your heart. the circlation isnt as good and a missed, or partialy missed shot could cause some bad news

[2HI2C]

watch it with the feet, you shouldnt use injections so far below your heart. the circlation isnt as good and a missed, or partialy missed shot could cause some bad news

The feet can get a little sore, but I have these HUGE veins on the tops of 'em (3 on each foot). I've learned to pinch the vein between my thumb and forefinger so it doesn't roll on me, which they are VERY quick to do!

Thanks again on the instructions for preparing the Morphine Sulfate tabs. I am really getting good at it now, and w/o your help I just KNOW I wouldn't have gotten this far, and on top of that would have wasted most everything.

I did get larger (1cc) syringes yesterday, and one trick I've learned after getting the solution hot, and pushing back the sludge, is to have 2 of them ready and waiting within my "work area". While the stuff is still pretty hot, I fill up both and set them aside while I tie off, at which time I'm ready and can do two shots very close to each other. That works pretty good! And I'm finding that it is good for at least one wash out, some times two!

Thanks again!

[BLOODY]

hi DRSTAR,we have kapanol too,but they only 100mg, so i prefer substitol,same lil balls too and hell to crush,esp. in da MORN;WHEN HURTIN ANYWAY.

[OxyContinuously]

Ummm...I can only make collect calls from jail. Will you accept the charges? heh...


Oh wow, what happened that u had to go to jail dude?

[2HI2C]

Oh wow, what happened that u had to go to jail dude?

It was a joke, man! Thanks for worrying about me, though!

I will say I FEEL like I'm going into jail. Tonight starts the beginning of a 3 week pain rehabilitation program at the Courage Center here in Minneapolis. (http://www.courage.org/media/875.pdf)

It's an inpatient program that helps people who have tried everything else to learn how to live with pain. It's going to suck, but I need to try something! I know I will be on meds for the rest of my life, but I wanted to try and learn some other skills, as well...

It's a very rigid program, and being the free spirit I am, I just know I'm going to cause them a shit load of headaches! Oh well...it'll be give and take. The good news is that is pretty close to downtown, so I can get out for some fun!

If anyone is from the Twin Cities, email me...LET'S HOOK UP AND HAVE SOME FUN!!! I'm away from home for 3 weeks...

[Mcdom]

Why are you going there - did your doc hook you up with this inpatient program or is this something you thought of on your own??

[2HI2C]

Why are you going there - did your doc hook you up with this inpatient program or is this something you thought of on your own??

Sorry for the delay...managed to get through my first day! WHEW... only...TWENTY more to go!

My doc hooked me up and wanted me to give it a try. I have screwed up enough things, so I figured he's the one writing the scripts, so I'm gonna start listening to him! My insurance company is picking up the tab...$18,000!! WOW!

[AGV10]

I've been taking Methadone for a week and a half, but it's simply NOT working out for me. I am going to see my doctor on Monday and am going to ask him to switch me over to one of the ER forms of Morphine, (one of the only meds I've never tried during my 5 yrs of back surgeries). Since I had an issue with OC, my wife is against me going back to it, and is more comfortable with the Morphine ER since it's only a once a day med.

So, my question is...with all the different products out there, is one better than the other? MS Contin, Avinza, Kadian, etc...??? Also, just laying it out there, I will learn how to IV these, as I've read that taking them orally is pretty much pointless! Is one of these better for IV'ing, or are they all pretty much the same?? When comparing IV morph to IV oxy, how close are they? I was doing OC 40mg REGULARLY. If I can get on the 60mg or 90mg morph ER's is the effect <, = or > OC?

I'll do a search on IV'ing morph before I ask any of the "how to's", but I'm sure I'll have some questions.

My Dr is VERY cool, and I know if my wife is comfortable with switching over to this, he will do it, so I was SO relieved when she said she would like me to switch over to Avinza (or one of the ER Morph's)...YES! I'm also going to ask for a few b/t meds during the day, and he's always given me the 15mg Oxy IR's. Even if I get 3 of those babies it'll be worth it...


Heres my 2cents worth ... and apologies if I m repeating what others may have said, but I prefer to comment against the background of my "experiance" and "knowldege" versus what others have contributed - so here goes ......

While yes, they all do much the same job, it is none-the-less a fact that different folk do have a preferance and some analgesics work beter in some patients than they do in others. We'd be here all night discussing the whys and wherefores.

I disagree that taking oral narcotic analgesics is pointless - unless of course for some or other reason your GI tract is not absorbing the stuff. Then of course its apointless exercise. In your case though that does not appear to be a problem from what you have said, and therefore, all things being equal the issue of how efective an oral dosage is going to be versus an IV dosage will be matter of how much you need.

You dont say what the issue your wife had with you using OC's, but if I read between the lines then the same issue is going to arise when using fr example MS Cotin ER (extended or Controlled release) - the only differance from an analgesic point of view is that you will need to take more MS Contin to achieve the same analgesic effect achieved with OC's (OC has become so popular because it's absorbtion is so much beter compared to MS Contin, so one just takes more MS Contin to achieve the same effect - and you're back to sqaure one i.e. from an analgesic perspective, it makes no differance which you take at the end of the day).

If your intention is actualy to IV whatever tab you are given - well, MS Contin would not be a good choice because out of all the morphine type tabs it's one of the hardest to break down for a solution mix. OC's would be better. In fact any instant release type tab would be better. The ER type tabs have a lot of extra shite in them, and while they don't have much efect one way or the other when IV'd, they are just more of a nuisance to work with.

OC 40mg will equal aroud 60- 80mg MS Contin - makes no diff if the Cont is immediate release or extended release 80mg is 80mg - when it comes to IV'ing it's a non-issue if it an extended release tab, as if you crush it up properly it will release the same as a instant release tab.

AGV10

[2HI2C]

Heres my 2cents worth ... and apologies if I m repeating what others may have said, but I prefer to comment against the background of my "experiance" and "knowldege" versus what others have contributed - so here goes ......

While yes, they all do much the same job, it is none-the-less a fact that different folk do have a preferance and some analgesics work beter in some patients than they do in others. We'd be here all night discussing the whys and wherefores.

I disagree that taking oral narcotic analgesics is pointless - unless of course for some or other reason your GI tract is not absorbing the stuff. Then of course its apointless exercise. In your case though that does not appear to be a problem from what you have said, and therefore, all things being equal the issue of how efective an oral dosage is going to be versus an IV dosage will be matter of how much you need.

You dont say what the issue your wife had with you using OC's, but if I read between the lines then the same issue is going to arise when using fr example MS Cotin ER (extended or Controlled release) - the only differance from an analgesic point of view is that you will need to take more MS Contin to achieve the same analgesic effect achieved with OC's (OC has become so popular because it's absorbtion is so much beter compared to MS Contin, so one just takes more MS Contin to achieve the same effect - and you're back to sqaure one i.e. from an analgesic perspective, it makes no differance which you take at the end of the day).

If your intention is actualy to IV whatever tab you are given - well, MS Contin would not be a good choice because out of all the morphine type tabs it's one of the hardest to break down for a solution mix. OC's would be better. In fact any instant release type tab would be better. The ER type tabs have a lot of extra shite in them, and while they don't have much efect one way or the other when IV'd, they are just more of a nuisance to work with.

OC 40mg will equal aroud 60- 80mg MS Contin - makes no diff if the Cont is immediate release or extended release 80mg is 80mg - when it comes to IV'ing it's a non-issue if it an extended release tab, as if you crush it up properly it will release the same as a instant release tab.

AGV10

Thanks for your lengthy and informative reply AGV10!

The prob my wife had with OC was simple...she walked in to my study at 4:30am just as I was shooting one...

I became a little wiser through that experience. Thanks to some kind opiophiles, I did get step-by-step instructions in preparing MS for IV'ing. I don't get the devil rush I've heard about, but rather a slight rush that settles in a nice warm body wrap.

[bronyraur]

I would LOVE to get the IR form, but since I'm being prescribed for pain, I need something that lasts most of the day (technically). My wife is comfortable with this because it's only ONE pill a day (no questions asked)...

I hate to tell you but even the pills marketed as "one a day" rarely (if ever) last the full 24 hours.

I'm prescribed MS Contin (which is supposed to be twice a day) and I have to take it 3-4 times a day just for effective pain control.

[2HI2C]

I hate to tell you but even the pills marketed as "one a day" rarely (if ever) last the full 24 hours.

I'm prescribed MS Contin (which is supposed to be twice a day) and I have to take it 3-4 times a day just for effective pain control.

thanks man. I've been on several ER meds, and have come to learn that as well. Currently, I'm taking mine 3 x's a day. And still...

[AGV10]

Thanks for your lengthy and informative reply AGV10!

The prob my wife had with OC was simple...she walked in to my study at 4:30am just as I was shooting one...

I became a little wiser through that experience. Thanks to some kind opiophiles, I did get step-by-step instructions in preparing MS for IV'ing. I don't get the devil rush I've heard about, but rather a slight rush that settles in a nice warm body wrap.


.... yer, I pretty much figured it was something along those lines.