croton/dragons blood purported opioid mechanism

[jacky]

in the new issue of the journal of ethnopharmacology, there is a report that reports something that I have long suspected...
that there is a suspected opioid effect from the consumption of croton sap,

I personally thought that it might be the known reticuline and salutaridine content in the resin that contributes to morphine biosynthesis in mammals/humans....

but I havnt seen any more specific information than the report of naloxone reversing the analgesia created from this croton resin.

there are many uses for this resin....
people smoking the stuff as red rock opium might need to smoke alot to get an effect...
I find that at least a gram or more of the resin is needed for pain relief/sedative effect/stimulant effect (depending on time of day) and I take that orally, not by smoking.

I have smoked the resin before, but it leaves a pink rubbery precipitate on my tounge, and I can only imagine what that is doing to the lungs.

[TokinDerrick]

red rock incense doesn't have any opiate effects at all...

at least from what I've done of it, and read about it.

[nick]

Jacky you are one crazy bastard,but I have total respect for you.

[jacky]

well, looking into the journal of ethnopharmacology some more recently, I found some data that supports the bioconversion in humans of -reticuline into morphine....

the human/mammallian body makes morphine, that is a fact that has been known for some time....the reason why is not as clear, but the synthesis, catabolic/metabolic processes are known, and the route from salutaridine to morphine, or reticuline to morphine is pretty much the same in animals as it happens in the opium plant.
simply amazing.

but now it has been shown, that even exogenous morphine precursors can be metabolized/catabolized into morphine, leading to high "endogenous" opiate levels.

now it is damn interesting that salutaridine, and reticuline, and other related isoquinoline alkaloids occur in many plant species, and its even more interesting that some of those species are purported analgesics, some of which people just havnt been able to figure out how they work.
a possibility is that these medicinal species are creating a compound that no one is looking for....morphine, and why would they?

-reticuline has been shown to have cns depressant effects as well, which could also be attributed to morphines effects.

now certian croton species contain the highest levels of reticuline known to nature, and sometimes people attribute analgesic effects to the "dragons blood" extract taken from these plants. my thought is that only strong oral doses would have effects on most people...smoking 1-5 grams of this plant resin would NOT be advised...
personally I have taken these croton extracts when trying to potentiate standard opiates, or, when trying to find herbs to help cut my daily opiate dose. sometimes it seemed that they did help.
though much more personal research is needed for me to come to a solid opinion.

I have been telling folks for a few years at least that I thought this type of bioconversion of reticuline and salutaridine to thebaine, and thus to morphine is possible.
I would bet money on that now.

so now, naturally, I am looking for a certian brazillian croton species, rumored to have high reticuline content, and then, I shall have that alkaloid harvested, and isolated into a 90-98% pure product.
then I can start my feeding experiments. on myself.

a great experiment would be for a opiate clean individual to try and take pure reticuline.

annona muricata leaves might contain reticuline also,...people have been trying to find out why that species has painkilling, mild narcotic effects for some time. perhaps again, its emboldened endogenous morphine levels, caused by the exogenous reticuline molecule, being changed into thebaine, and then morphine.

the dea would probably take a long time to react to this subject, and the beauty of the conversion is that there is no illegal lab, I dont think this precursor is controlled yet, and the synthesis process is performed by the body.

[roxi*stardust]

Wow jacky, great info. Thanks. Any links? I'd love to read this in full. Pharmacology?

[skeletontea]

I too once tried smoking dragon's blood incense (funneling it from a brass censer with a hollow pen.) I didn't feel any effects which could be clearly differentiated from a psychosomatic effect.

I noticed the pink, crystalline precipitate; not on my tongue, but on the inside of the pen tube. I promptly abandoned further experimentation when I, like you, questioned what the resin was doing to my lungs.

[TokinDerrick]

yeah, from my experience, its usually only younger high school kids messing with this stuff. and its also nasty tasting and if you smoke it in your normal marijuana pipe, ruins the taste of the marijuana smoked out of the pipe almost indefinetly.

[jacky]

well, in america it might be mostly young kids that get suckered into buying croton resin sold as red rock opium...
but in other parts of the world, like south america, this sap of different croton plants is highly regarded as a topical medicine, and also as an internal analgesic. it is actually a very common medicinal herb down there.

I think the reason most people dont get effects from smoking this sap is because you need alot more than a few hundred milligrams of material most likely, to feel any analgesic effect.
oral dosages range from a few grams to over ten grams of material.
hardly an amount that you would find someone smoking.

another thing to consider is...if the analgesic effect can be attributed to morphine production by the body through conversion of reticuline/related morphine precursors...then peoples reaction to the product is going to vary greatly...some people lack essential levels of enzymes to convert other opioid precursors, like codeine for example, so I imagine that the same might be true for -reticuline.
some people might take to it quite nicely, and for others, it might only cause constipation, and be a better topical liquid bandaid than internal somatic analgesic.

smoking many herbal substances is patently useless, heat destroys some components, and many times, the oral dosage of the herb is far more than a person might be able to smoke.
I know that statement does not apply to some special, very potent herbs that are actually probably safer when smoked in small amounts, but for most herbs that have medicinal properties, I find that smoking is useless.

[roxi*stardust]

We were suckered into smoking this stuff in high school. I didn't notice much of an effect, other than an added bit of energy. Almost like I drank 2 cups of coffee. I always thought it was a placebo effect. My friend brought it from California with the idea that it was "Red Rock Opium". I was skeptical since my Dad was a hippie in the 60's and had always talked about opium being black/dark brown and sticky. I tried it anyways because of peer pressure. I do recall the smell of the stuff. I loved the smell.......