h on mmt [Archive] - Opiophile.org

tptptp

08-26-2007, 03:05 PM

I nver really got into h i am on mmt for a massive oc addiction but now have finallt6 got access to blow and want to know if i would feel it being on 80mg of the mdone a day? planned on doin about 3 or 4 bags

I wouldn't do it on TOP opf the methadone man.....this is what causes alot of OD's people topping off shit on their methadone because 80mg is around the blocking area so you might not *feel* that high but your body certainly has shut down that much, then you push that little bit more and your gone. So many deaths from this...if you can, can you try skipping your methadone for the day at least?

Be very careful w/this shit

Crow

08-26-2007, 03:30 PM

Ummm, blow is coke.

Hahaha, sorry, if I had anything useful to say I would.

Duckfeet

08-26-2007, 04:38 PM

The last, and most serious of my three overdoses was doing heroin on top of methadone, up in Davenport with a pal. Don't know why exactly it happened...but I had quit breathing, and lucky I had a pal with me, as he said he was tempted to just dump me by a hospital, but instead he went inside, and some docs brought me back... And I'm an old experienced hand, too. Something about methadone, easy to overdose, IMO, on heroin, as it doesn't *seem* like ur getting off, so I'm always tempted to do too much. I warn against...

underide

08-26-2007, 06:01 PM

Oh you will definately feel something. Especially if you do 3-4 bags as you said.
It won't be the same as doing 3 bags before you got you methadone habit mind you.
Because of the tolerance that you have now and the fact that even after 24 hours after your last methadone dose there would still be a minute amount of methadone molecules competing for your opiate receptors.
You would still be able to feel a certain sort of euphoria or rather a warm glow right after the shot, but its very subtle and theres no spectacular rush people are so used to after doing a good shot of heroin or even eating a few oxy pills.

I am on 85 mls of methadone a day and i still like to do an odd shot of H every now and again. I use 2 bags a shot usually. On rare occasions 3, because of the purity/size variations. A lot also depends on the strength of loacal heroin. In my case, I have to do at least 2 bags to feel anything now.
I would usually wait at least 12 hours after dosing on methadone, that makes a big difference, as the analgesic quality of done wears off after about 8 hours for me. Even better to wait 24 hours, but I find the difference between 12-24 hours not very significant.
If in fact you can wait 48 hours, there will be a very significant difference, but your tolerance is still there, so the rush is still not as good as it used to be.
Methadone is a tenacious substance when it comes to that. I think you have to wait at least 72-80 hours cold turkey, before a heroin shot to gains back that magic ecstatic quality (you know the one i'm talking about).
The most I've managed to wait is about 60 hours, that was over 2 years ago and i waited just so i can shoot heroin 'properly'. That was as good as it ever got on the programme.
By that stage you have to be very careful thou. Very easy to OD.
Your tolerance is still very much there, but it drops enough that it could make it your last shot.
Just make sure the heroin is not much stronger than what you're used to.
Play safe!

underide

08-26-2007, 06:13 PM

Shit man, i've just realized you were talking about cocaine?
Ofcourse you will feel it. Any time after or before your dosing, esbecially if youre going to bang it.
Careful with banging it though, make sure you don't do too much in a shot, or your heart can stop.
Blow really fucks up your veins too. Its just so good, especially with heroin mixed in, that its impossible to resist sometimes.
Again, don't overdo it. Coke/heroin work to potentiate one another so you could end up like John Belushi.
Get to know your dose.
And go easy on the veins.
I never had any problem with my veins, never even had to to tie-off.
All that changed as soon as i discovered the sheer exhilaritaion of a coke shot. Now most of my visible veins on arms and feet are clogged or collapsed.
Nasty stuff

tptptp

08-26-2007, 06:23 PM

Shit man, i've just realized you were talking about cocaine?

Yeah, I think this conufsed a bunch of us the topic says "h on mmt" andf then he says well i never got into h and asks about coke in the heroin forum.....WTF?"

and what in the f'n world is "3 or 4 baggys" talking about blow???

chopstix

08-26-2007, 07:39 PM

The last, and most serious of my three overdoses was doing heroin on top of methadone, up in Davenport with a pal.

Umm.. Davenport, CA? As in 10 miles north of SC on the 1?

If so, you and I run around a lot of the same places..
WA, LA (Louisiana), FL, CA..

is_today_monday

08-26-2007, 07:41 PM

Perhaps he is talking about H - maybe just thought blow meant smack, you know? Different areas have different lingo.

For example, where I live, 'gear' is speed, 'dope' is pot, etc. If I go to Brisbane, 'gear' and 'dope' can both mean Heroin.

I think the guy has just got his words mixed around and IS actually talking about dope, not coke.

Ah, drug lingo is a funny thing :)

CSiiSEQ

08-26-2007, 07:42 PM

Ummm, blow is coke.

Hahaha, sorry, if I had anything useful to say I would.

Not necessarily, in parts of Maryland "blow" is raw dope. Sounds like it is the case for his area too. I've always hated that slang because i worry i'm going to get stick with coke when asking for blow.

Duckfeet

08-26-2007, 07:51 PM

Nope: Davenport IA, actually what call Quad-Cities, Green Rock, E. Moline, Davenport....I forget the other. Got a good pal up that way, saved my life, probably...(he was a medic w/173rd Airborne Brgde.)...check in if yer alive, Smitty :-)

Other than that, we bounced around the same territory, for sure...

And I reread this post also, but am unsure which "blow" he was talking about. I too trashed veins on coke, rather than opys...glad as hell this tar wasn't around in my formative years, as it's murder on veins and surrounding areas...

Umm.. Davenport, CA? As in 10 miles north of SC on the 1?

If so, you and I run around a lot of the same places..
WA, LA (Louisiana), FL, CA..

cjd83us

08-26-2007, 08:35 PM

uhm here in detroit we call the packs of dope blows. sorry to confuse people. i know shooting coke i would feel it i have tried it before. i was also wondering about speedballs while on mmt

bronyraur

08-26-2007, 08:54 PM

I wouldn't do it on TOP opf the methadone man.....this is what causes alot of OD's people topping off shit on their methadone because 80mg is around the blocking area so you might not *feel* that high but your body certainly has shut down that much, then you push that little bit more and your gone. So many deaths from this...if you can, can you try skipping your methadone for the day at least?

Be very careful w/this shit

Listen to what TP (and Duckfeet) have to say.

Or pick 'done or H, but not both (easier said than done).

rachamim18

09-04-2007, 07:40 AM

Methadone does not "block" anything. It simply has the higest receptor affinity of any opiate/opioid. This means that when doing methadone, it will cling to your recpetors like glue, preventing most other opiates/opioids from gaining a toehold.

The average "blocking" {for lack of other terminology to express it in English} dosage is 70 mgs. This only applies though to people who have dosed on a dily basis for more than 10 to 14 days. Once you have dosed just so, you have reached what is known as "Optimum Dosing," or the "Plateau Stage." At this point the target had fully binded to your receptors and has laos formed an internal resevoir within your GI ensuring what is effectively a blockage.

Technically, you could defeat this by using enough opiate/opioid but in reality you would die before being able to do so.

In addition, you should remember that besides having an internal resevoir, the substance has an incredibly long half life so that even fater the psychoactive effects have passed (8 to 12 hours), you are still under the influence. Thus, thinking the substance has evacuated (clear of your bbody), you might redose and kill yourself. Methadone is extremely dangerous from this viewpoint so think before doing other substances in conjunction.

rachamim18

09-04-2007, 07:45 AM

tui

09-05-2007, 04:19 PM

wow, you certainly got a lot of no-don't-do-it-you'll-die replies. but i did it ALOT, and felt the h, without ever coming within a whisker of an OD. i don't want you to die obvs, but i really think you copped a lot of unwarranted over-objection.
in fact, everyone i know here in NZ and in Canada on the 'done still uses on top... with zero neg results.

t

CTdopeLove

09-05-2007, 04:30 PM

Methadone does not "block" anything. It simply has the higest receptor affinity of any opiate/opioid.

Actually, buprenorphine has a higher receptor affinity than methadone does, although bupe is only a partial agonist. I'd say methadone has one of the highest affinities of the full agonists, but I'm sure there are many obscure analogues out there with a higher affinity than methadone and bupe.

~CTdopeLove

underide

09-05-2007, 04:38 PM

Cocaine and heroujn do NOT potentiate each other.
"

this is very debatable.

underide

09-05-2007, 04:53 PM

To Rachamim:
http://opioids.com/speedballs/index.html

read the paragraph titled:
Reinforcing effects of cocaine/opioid combination

There are many other articles on this subject all substantiating the theory that cocaine/opiates do potentiate eachother.

Maybe you should do aspeedball yourself, before you post on the subject. If you have ever done a speedball(and i'm not saying you havent) you surely would have noticed that in fact you need less heroin to get you straight, when in combination with cocaine.

underide

09-05-2007, 04:58 PM

On time needed after last doage of methadfone, if you are in the plateau phase, it might take as long as 14 days.

I wont try do disprove what you wrote here but this seems a little far-fetched.
14 days!? just out of curiosity- where did you get this fact from?

rachamim18

09-08-2007, 04:30 AM

CT: Nope, not even close. It is like this. Bupe has PARTIAL affinity on Delta, ORL1,MU1,and Kappa. It has no NMDA and almost no Mu2. Methadone has partial on Delta, in fact lower than Bupe on it, and lower on Kappa as well but it is full on Mu1 and since Mu1 is considered to be the key by most, as well as it having activation on NMDA, I think it is clear methadone beats it out. Bupe, and maybe this is where you get it fromn, has a very active metabolite and methadone has none. However, methadone's half life greatly exceeds that of Bupe so...

Underride: Cocaine actually diminishes opioid/opiate action, not potentiate it. As for 14 days, this is basic pharmo. You do know it is stored in plasma, right? With successive dosing these plasma levels build so that you have an internal resevoir. This is why long term users do not go into actual physical w/d for days after their last dose (although they can swear they do). The half life as well, which can be as long as 60 hours (often only 22 with some as low as 15 hours) can also help towards this end.

Opiyum

09-08-2007, 04:59 AM

Hey i ain;t your mother so shouldnt be tellin you what to do .

If it were me. I would be happy with a handful of Xax'ies or restoril. You need to be buyin that Brown Powpow. I say bipass that and go for the benzo's man....the meth benvo high is lie nithin else.

Either way I hope it works ont for ya

chopstix

09-08-2007, 05:14 AM

Technically, you could defeat this by using enough opiate/opioid but in reality you would die before being able to do so.

Bullshit, there are many thousands, if not millions of people on this planet shooting dope on top of 70mg+ methadone and they're still breathing. Being the pharmacological expert that you are, you should know that opioid tolerance is *highly* subjective.

CT: Nope, not even close. It is like this. Bupe has PARTIAL affinity on Delta, ORL1,MU1,and Kappa. It has no NMDA and almost no Mu2. Methadone has partial on Delta, in fact lower than Bupe on it, and lower on Kappa as well but it is full on Mu1 and since Mu1 is considered to be the key by most, as well as it having activation on NMDA, I think it is clear methadone beats it out. Bupe, and maybe this is where you get it fromn, has a very active metabolite and methadone has none. However, methadone's half life greatly exceeds that of Bupe so...

I admit that bup pharmacology and the concept of agonist vs. antagonist is one that I'm still studying, but I don't buy this. Maybe you can explain it better. Key points:

A buprenorphine OD is virtually irreversible, not the case with methadone which can be easily reversed with Naltrexone. Is this not related to affinity and not indicative of a greater Mu1 binding?

Why is it that if you give a long term methadone user buprenorphine, they will instantly go into withdrawals - because of the antagonistic action of the bup, right? So with the long half life on MD, why isn't this temporary? This suggests higher (Mu agonist) affinity to me (but what the fuck do I know..)

To my knowledge, 32mg of bup will block virtually any amount of methadone, is this true and not indicative of a greater affinity?

I got my notebook out, lets hear it..

rachamim18

09-09-2007, 11:24 PM

Chopstix: I suggest you actually read my posts before firing off a response. I never said you would die just from injecting heroin on top of any dosage of methadone. i did say that you would probabaly die before ingesting the minimum needed to overried methadone on your recpetors and this is a fact.

Millions doing it? I doubt it because there is not even 1 million worldwide on OST but it is moot anyway.

Antagonism is not related to agonist affinity but it is a common sense approach so I do not blame you for thinking this way. In reality though, affinity is assigned on a numerical value system. Methadone's numbers are higher , in addition to the addition of other receptor activity that Bupe is devoid of.

Mu1 is only one of several factors in a large dynamic.

A paticular dosage of Bupe or any other substance will be able to override anything. Even methadone does not lock the receptors totally. It just takes a very high dosage to override it. Bupe, as you might know, when introduced was less than 1 mg. per dosage for analgesia,etc. 32 mgs. is an incredibly high dosage of the substance so it is easy to understand it overriding methadone's threshhold.

Tolerance is subjective but we are still able to avergae out the threshold and by this averaging we know for a fact that 70 is the usual dosage needed to block.

rachamim18

09-09-2007, 11:31 PM

On Bupe causing w/d in methadone uers. First, it is not always, and second we do not know exactly how antagonists work , well the whole process anyway. It is thought that it is caused in Bupe's case of a mechanism between the receotirs and the G protein. We also know that Bupe DOES have higher affinity (not by much) on Kappa. this does not then autmoatically assign greater affinity on all receptors. Bupe has a ceiling effect as well so that taking it when on methadone it is much more difficult to gain psychoactive effect.

To sum it up, all the antagonism tells us is that , and we already know this, Bupe has greater Kappa. Overall affinity is actually irrelevant to this .

chopstix

09-10-2007, 07:38 PM

Chopstix: I suggest you actually read my posts before firing off a response. I never said you would die just from injecting heroin on top of any dosage of methadone. i did say that you would probabaly die before ingesting the minimum needed to overried methadone on your recpetors and this is a fact.

I did read your posts and frankly they're painful and now my eyes won't stop bleeding.. Honestly, I think you're the one that's not reading, Rachamim..

So, got any sources for your "facts?" I see several posts in this thread that appear to discount your claims regarding the effects of H at and above the 70mg level. The real fact is, like I said before, opioid tolerance is subjective and not everyone is the same.

The numbers of users on the planet are irrelevant, it was a wild guess, it's the context that matters.

Honestly, the rest of your replies are, for the most part, nonsensical drivel to me and not worth picking apart. At points you start looking like you're going to make a valid point but then it just turns back into mush, I think you're backpedaling and don't really know as much about the subject at hand as you'd like us to believe.

If you have any sources to back up your claims, I imagine I'm not the only one who would be interested in reading them..

chopstix

09-10-2007, 10:33 PM

My last response was a little premature, there were actually a few key statements that I'd like to address:

Methadone does not "block" anything. It simply has the higest receptor affinity of any opiate/opioid. This means that when doing methadone, it will cling to your recpetors like glue, preventing most other opiates/opioids from gaining a toehold.

Hold that thought...

since Mu1 is considered to be the key by most.

Mu1 is only one of several factors in a large dynamic.
Convenient to bend the argument as needed, huh?

A paticular dosage of Bupe or any other substance will be able to override anything. Even methadone does not lock the receptors totally

Bupe, as you might know, when introduced was less than 1 mg. per dosage for analgesia,etc. 32 mgs. is an incredibly high dosage of the substance so it is easy to understand it overriding methadone's threshhold.

Furthering the argument that in the grand scheme, Buprenorphine binds tighter than methadone.

Tolerance is subjective but we are still able to avergae out the threshold and by this averaging we know for a fact that 70 is the usual dosage needed to block.

If tolerance is subjective, then no specific dosage can really be considered "fact." This is a contradictory statement.

On Bupe causing w/d in methadone uers. First, it is not always

Can you provide reference to a single case where a significant dosage of bup did not induce precipitated wd in a meth patient?

and second we do not know exactly how antagonists work , well the whole process anyway. It is thought that it is caused in Bupe's case of a mechanism between the receotirs and the G protein. We also know that Bupe DOES have higher affinity (not by much) on Kappa. this does not then autmoatically assign greater affinity on all receptors. Bupe has a ceiling effect as well so that taking it when on methadone it is much more difficult to gain psychoactive effect.

Fuck a psychoactive gain, try induced withdrawal!!

To sum it up, all the antagonism tells us is that , and we already know this, Bupe has greater Kappa. Overall affinity is actually irrelevant to this .

Isn't degree of affinity what initiated this debate? See first item in post.. :rolleyes:

CTdopeLove

09-11-2007, 08:51 PM

I finally got back to reading this thread, and I'm gonna have to bow out on any attempt at arguing my point. I always assumed since buprenorphine taken while dependent on methadone resulting in precipitated withdrawal, that bupe had a higher receptor affinity than methadone. However, considering rach again states otherwise, I'm gonna take his word for it since I know from experience that he's much more well-versed in chemistry and pharmacology than I.

I would still argue about methadone having the highest receptor affinity of all opioids though. Because of the overwhelming number of synthetic drugs out there, I find it hard to believe that there are no synthetic fent analogs or the like out there that have a higher receptor affinity than does methadone.

Besides that point, I digress to rachamin's extensive knowledge. He is an opioid god compared to myself.

~CTdopeLove

sOfAKiNg

09-12-2007, 05:05 AM

I nver really got into h i am on mmt for a massive oc addiction but now have finallt6 got access to blow and want to know if i would feel it being on 80mg of the mdone a day? planned on doin about 3 or 4 bags
from my experience, you won't get high at all on 80mg of done no matter how much u do. i'm on mmt 60mg., and 3 bags will give me a good long nod, and rush. when i was on 80mg. i couldn't get high for the life of me

Curio

09-12-2007, 05:21 AM

On time needed after last doage of methadfone, if you are in the plateau phase, it might take as long as 14 days.

Cocaine and heroujn do NOT potentiate each other. Potentiation means to amplify the effects of a certain substance. For example, benzodiazipene will potentiate heroin but not cocaine. Cocaine is of course a CNS stimulant. Heroin is a depressant. The pharmokineticks are very different.

You are correct though that they are harmful in conjunection with one another, as you said a la Belushi. The reason is, well look at it liek this. You have two legs, imagine each running in different directions full speed. This is a"speedball."

this is very debatable.

This really is NOT debatable; the reason speedballs are so dangerous is because the CNS stimulants increase heart rate, thus increasing the cellular need for oxygen, while opiates depress the respiratory drive at the same time....imagine the results from that point on and I think you'll see why so many have died this way.

Saint

09-15-2007, 05:47 AM

I used methadone for 24 years and about 16 of them I used heroine (IV) on top of it. In fact the only time I overdosed and ended up in the hospital was when I had tapered to only 10 mgs of methadone and shot some H that was (unexpectedly) very, very strong stuff.
I used about 50 to 90 mgs of methadone during the time I was still on heroine and definitely felt a rush when I IV-ed heroine.. it did leave me with a double addiction though..

rachamim18

09-15-2007, 05:30 PM

CT: You know I find you know as much as me or maybe more but in this I think you just took the antagonistic action to heart and did not conser the numerical values and overall receptor action. Not a biggie.

On synthetics, well I am sure that could be true, especially with analogs of methadone itself,etc. but as for now, to my knowledge (and you know methadone is one thing I am anal about) it is not even researched so it is an unknon. On fen though, I do love the analogs and have documentation on 17 (the Yugo work and Korean) and still do not evenb see it as close.

Saint: 70 is the average. As for double addiction, not possible with cross tolerant substances, just possible for a super heavy opiate/opioid addiction.

Chopstix:"sources." No, I do not imagine many will ask because it is methadonbe 101 stuff that was ascertained in the late 60s. After close to ahaolf a century it becomes standard science. If you manage to act sivil though, and cannot find it on your own, I might oblige you.

"Bending arguments." Are you also not a native English speaker? "by most" is referring to what others think or claim, the second sentence you refernce is myu making a definateive statement.

You know, it is clear that you have some kind of chip on your shoulder about me but I have to tell you, you are only acting childish. If you have real issues about anything I say, I would love to discuss it but it is clear that you are only venting for whatever reason and I really do not have the time for that.

"Bupe has greater affinity..." Nope. It is real simple. You would need to take a person with no substances in their system, than offer equigesic dosages. Just because one person is doing 32 milligrams of a substance that is usually taken in less than 1 mg. dosages does not mean methadone is less binding. I do not even see how you could think as much.

"Tolerance is subjective." Again, do you fully understand English? Subjective does not mean anything other than a response being tailor made for an indivudal. You can still calculate averages while respecting that there ARE variables at play. What concurrent meds are being consumed, a person's diet, weight and enzymatic construction are all variables to be considered and yet, when averaged out, the dosage needed to "block 9does not really block but for lack of a better word), is 70 mgs.

"Affinity being irrelevant." Irrelevant to that specific point, not thread. I have to be honest, if you are going to continue to act like a child, you will do it with others. I will simply ignore you. I do not have the time needed to stroke you.

tptptp

09-15-2007, 05:41 PM

Cocaine and heroin might not "potentiate" each other in a TECHNICAL sense, but combining them is a stronger overall high, and thats what addicts chase a good high. They may not potentiate each other directly, but they potentiate a stronger feeling high together.

matfield

09-15-2007, 06:58 PM

from my experience, you won't get high at all on 80mg of done no matter how much u do. i'm on mmt 60mg., and 3 bags will give me a good long nod, and rush. when i was on 80mg. i couldn't get high for the life of me

Its weird! It all seems to be subjective OR maybe just depends on the quality of the dope?!
I am on 90mg and im all high and loaded from HALF a bag.
(Right now im noddin and typin with on eye closed)

chopstix

09-15-2007, 07:57 PM

"Bending arguments." Are you also not a native English speaker? "by most" is referring to what others think or claim, the second sentence you refernce is myu making a definateive statement.

"Bupe has greater affinity..." Nope. It is real simple. You would need to take a person with no substances in their system, than offer equigesic dosages. Just because one person is doing 32 milligrams of a substance that is usually taken in less than 1 mg. dosages does not mean methadone is less binding. I do not even see how you could think as much.What difference does it make whether or not English is my primary language?

These two posts are examples of why I'm done with these threads, I picked a couple quotes for brevity, you do start to make sense when you call me names but the arguments themselves are comical. What the hell do these mean anyway? You fail to make a point or even really provide a contiguous debate - it's pure nonsense (can anyone else make sense of these?)

In case you missed it in the other thread, Rachmim, I'm done. I think my points are clear and yours are completely opaque and I'm not convinced that the (quite sudden) nonsense isn't intentional...

Peace out..

Oh, I don't think I need any Filipino stroking, if I did I could probably find it in SF in 57 flavors so that's a big negative capt'n..

--------------

Mods: Where is this mythical flamers forum? I got marshmallows and some thermite and sometimes I get bored..

Curio

09-15-2007, 08:16 PM

Mods: Where is this mythical flamers forum? I got marshmallows and some thermite and sometimes I get bored..

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=2246&highlight=beating+inner+child

chopstix

09-15-2007, 08:59 PM

You and your signature are doing your avatar a disservice. You should be ashamed of yourself..

Saint

09-16-2007, 11:12 AM

CT: You know I find you know as much as me or maybe more but in this I think you just took the antagonistic action to heart and did not conser the numerical values and overall receptor action. Not a biggie.

Saint: 70 is the average. As for double addiction, not possible with cross tolerant substances, just possible for a super heavy opiate/opioid addiction.

You're probably right, I don't know that much about the whole chemistry-side. All I know is that I had far less trouble getting off heroine only (1 to 2 grams IV daily) than I had coming off heroine (about 1 gram IV daily) AND methadone (60 mgs). But we're all different so what is true for me might not perse be true for others.

rachamim18

09-20-2007, 05:19 AM

Saint: Well you are absolutely correct. Withdrawal is so subjective. We have constants though that do not vary.

On your paticular case with BOTH heroin and methadone, well we all know methadone takes much longer to withdraw from so it is a no brainer to realise when combininb both heroin and methadone, we will have a much harder time than from heroin alone,right?

underide

09-20-2007, 08:44 AM

This really is NOT debatable; the reason speedballs are so dangerous is because the CNS stimulants increase heart rate, thus increasing the cellular need for oxygen, while opiates depress the respiratory drive at the same time....imagine the results from that point on and I think you'll see why so many have died this way.

Wasn't talking about that. If you ever re-read my post, i was talking about coke/heroin potentiating one another. doubt u ever will read it though, so nevermind...

Curio

09-20-2007, 02:49 PM

Cocaine and heroin do NOT potentiate each other.

this is very debatable.

Wasn't talking about that. If you ever re-read my post, i was talking about coke/heroin potentiating one another. doubt u ever will read it though, so nevermind...

I know what you were talking about, but I thought I should correct the information so that everyone understands the facts.

cocaine is a stimulant.

Heroin is an opiate agonist.

Both effect the CNS, but not in the same way.

Subjectively:

Both can cause EUPHORIA which may FEEL greater

IF both are administered

within close proximity of each other

rather than taken individually.

That is NOT potentiation....

rachamim18

09-20-2007, 10:29 PM

Chopstix: i reread your post and want to know, what do you mean by "Filipino stroking"?

underide

09-21-2007, 12:29 AM

I know what you were talking about, but I thought I should correct the information so that everyone understands the facts.

cocaine is a stimulant.

Heroin is an opiate

http://opioids.com/speedballs/index.html

read paragraph titled: reinforcing effects of cocaine/opiate combo

Can't argrue with Harvard baby!:)

chopstix

09-21-2007, 04:36 AM

Chopstix: i reread your post and want to know, what do you mean by "Filipino stroking"?

You said you didn't have the time to stroke me and I (basically) said that I wasn't interested anyway. I'm not, umm... playin' for that team if ya catch my drift, sailor..

rachamim18

09-22-2007, 10:19 AM

Chopstix: Except that I am not Filipino. should have used Jew or Israeli...

Underride: The paper is only talking about conjunctive use of the 2 and its effects on the Reward Center. It is not talking of poteniation although you could use the term "poteniate" within that framework...however, in pharmokineticks the term "poteniate" is used specifically to describe substances that amplify specific physiological responses, not substances that interact metnally. For example, any substance using the 450 enzymatic pathway (primarily), say codeine, will poteniate any other 450 substance , like heroin, methadone,etc. Cocaine however is a different mechanic.

In your defence I can see why you might have felt that way but it is incorrect.