underide
08-21-2007, 09:57 AM
Hi all!
I'm new to this forum and this is my first post.
Just a bit curious about the methadone system throughout the European Union. Things like availability of methadone treatment, the amount of money (if any) people pay for methadone treatment, amount of time it takes them to get on the program, any positive/negative aspects of their treatment etc.
Would appreciate any feedback about your experiences with methadone by people from the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Norway, Sweeden... anywhere in Europe for that matter.
I have been reading quite a bit on this forum, and some others about the done scene in the US, so i feel somewhat familiar with it.
Just in case you ever wondered what the scene is like in Ireland - here is a little basic info with a brief introduction about myself:
I am 23. First opioid i tried was Palfium (dextromoramide - which is abit more potent than morphine) when i was 16. Followed shortly by heroin. By the age of 17 i made a quick transition from the foil to syringe and occasional use made way for full time occupation. I was in my last year at school but somehow managed to pass all my exams and did quite well, considering my all-consuming 'hobbie'. Come to think of it I am now more inclined to think that I only did that well in exams because i had heroin every day of the last semester.
The problems only started after the summer holidays, when my inheritance fund dried up.
First thing i sold was my PS2 along with a good few games. Then, my dvd player, cd collection and my beloved Fender Jag. within about a month or two my room would be empty of any valuable belongings.
But I didn's stop there. First i would ask my parents for various 'loans' and it didnt's take long before they got suspicious.
Shortly after that I was kicked out of the house, for pawning my parents' belongings.
I stayed with various friends, in squats and even slept rough a couple of days. This routine lasted another 3 months. It was very painfull to realise that I could degrade so fast over a bunch of dust people stash in their anuses. Still, I just couldn't last longer than 3-4 days in withdrawal. I would beg, steal and borrow and eventually allways ended up back on the horse.
Eventually I swallowed my pride and came back to my parents for help. I was in tears as soon as i saw them. They were more than willing to help. My dad offered to take me abroad, away from the scene, but i felt that was abit to much for me at the time.
I went to the Drug Treatment Centre in Dublin, which is a Government-sponsored organisation that does reaserch, psychological and medical treatment for various drug addictions (namely heroin and cocaine) and boasts the biggest Methadone clinic in the country within its walls.
After waiting another month and a half(which is quite quickby irish standards) and a few assesments I was put on lime-green Methadone(1mg/ml racemic mix). one week before that i had to give my first supervised urine test, of which i had to give 3 in total in the first week prior to starting the program. All three of them were opiate positive, which i guess is the norm. For my first month on the program I would have to give a supervised urine sample twice every week. After that and to this day it would be once every week and always closely supervised. A bit too closely if you ask me. If you cant provide a sample you have to try again anyhow for the next hour and a half. If you still cant provide one by the end of your visit, your urine sample would automatically be deemed 'dirty' and you would be docked 5 mils of your dose.they're very strict in this regard. There are exceptions, but very rarely. Depends on the doctor and his mood.
Everybody gets a starting dose of 20 mils but they would gradually increase it by 5-10 mils------------------------------------------
Over the next month/s you would usually increase your dosage much more. How much more depends entirely on how much you can whinge and moan and how convincing you are. a lot also depends on the doctor youre assigned to. I am currently on 85 mils (quite standard dose at our clinic) which took me a few months of moaning and groaning, but at the start it really did feel like i didn't have enough. i know a few people on 140 mils which is considered a high dose here
All methadone in Ireland is free by the way, always has been, even if you've no insurance. thats why i was quite surprised to learn that in places like US you have to pay for your juice.
When you first start on the program here you have to come in every day. After a month, if your urine is clean of opiates and benzos(on which they are surprisingly strict here) you get your first take home bottle, which they always give you either saturday or sunday. Another month of clean urines - you get another take-home, and so forth. So far i've got 5 take homes, which means i only have to come in on tuesdays and fridays. this took me over 3 years to accomlish. If your urine comes up 'dirty', ie opiate/benzo, and in rare cases coke positive, you lose one of your take homes. Again - there can be exceptions, all depends on your honesty, use history, behaviour and doctor's mood.
Once you test positive for opiates, they give you a week to clear it up. If you stil test positive in a week, they put a yellow sticker on your chart and take another of your take homes(which you can 'earn' back in a months time). If that test is still positive they put a blue sticker on your chart. and if the next urine is still positive they stick a red sticker on your chart. you can clear any sticker within a four weeks.
So basicaly, if say you have a blue sticker on your chart and your urines have been clean for three weeks, but on the forth you get a positive, they give you a RED STICKER.
Once you get a red sticker they still give you a week to clear your urine. If it doesnt come back clean, well then your on the 'night train' as the local junkies say. which means that all your take homes are taken of you( if any) and youre brought down to 20 mils over the course of the week no matter what your stabilised dosage was. Youre also allocated a particular time slot at wich to appear at the clinic, usually in the afternoon whereas if you still have your full privilages, you can come in any time between 9am to 5pm. 'Night train' lasts 5 weeks and is a right bummer as you can see.
I myself did manage to get on it once at the start of my 'treatment', and it sucked bollocks big time. First you get angry and say something along the lines of "fuck this shit! I aint coming back to this shithole for some stinking 20 mils!! you can stick them up your ass!!" but then 2-3 days go by and youre knocking that door down screaming "Give me my fucking 20 mils!"
At our clinic youre onlly allowed 2 red stickers in your chart history. Get your third night train and your out of the clinic for good. Chances are you won't ever be able to get back on it or any other one for that one, Although we don't actually have to many of them. Ours is a small county and most of the few clinics you get are in the capital - Dublin.
That doesn't mean that there is no drug problem in our country. There is in fact quite a big heroin/cocaine problem in Dublin. Waiting lists to get on methadone are ridiculously long, sometimes as long as 5 months! I got very lucky.
There are on the other hand a lot of 'harm-reduction' projects like needle exchange points(i can think of 10 different places to get cleen needles in the city all legitimate), where they don't just give you clean needles, citric, water, swabs, condoms, etc., theres actually a nurse present at the needle exchange place, that would show you how to inject properly( without actually injecting ofcourse). From what i gather the situation is alot more lax on this particular subject at least, than in say the US where I keep hearing horror stories of set up stings where cops actually pretend to be drug dealers. That kind of malarkey is aLMOST UNIMAGINABLE OVER HERE. theres even been talk of actuall legit shooting galleries, but nothing just yet.
Thats not to say we dont get hassled by the cops here. We do but much more rarely and leniantely. I remember one of my mates has actually been let of with just his id details taken after a cop searched him and found a baggie of heroin on him. I have been let of without arrest with a few extasy tablets, no shit! The cops here seem to concentrate mostly on big-time dealers.
By all accounts though, methadone clinics in Ireland seem to be more strict that in the US. That might be because it's all gov-ment sponsored.
I have been on the done over 3 and a half years now and do feel tied up in many ways by it. The next step for me I suppose would be to try to transfer to a GP (general practitioner - private doctor), and get my methadone from him. this is another system here, also free of charge(SAVE FOR CONSULTATION FEE) which is even more difficult to get on to. you have to be at the clinic for at least 2 years, which is atick for me, before you can get a transfer to a GP which gives you a script for done once or twise a month, and also takes your urine. You then get your done in a pharmacy (still liquid-we never get done tabs over this side of the pond). This system appears to be much more flexible and lax and is the next step for me, on my road hopefully, to recovery. I am talking to my counsellor at the clinic abouth this move, but theres also along waiting list for this. Fingers crossed...
Anyways, sorry for making a book out of it. Just in case youre ever curious about some basic aspects of methadone treatment in Ireland.
I would love to hear about the system in other European countries, or anywhere around the world for that matter, feel free to share, would appreciate any info or any stories on the subject.
Thanks! :)
I'm new to this forum and this is my first post.
Just a bit curious about the methadone system throughout the European Union. Things like availability of methadone treatment, the amount of money (if any) people pay for methadone treatment, amount of time it takes them to get on the program, any positive/negative aspects of their treatment etc.
Would appreciate any feedback about your experiences with methadone by people from the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Norway, Sweeden... anywhere in Europe for that matter.
I have been reading quite a bit on this forum, and some others about the done scene in the US, so i feel somewhat familiar with it.
Just in case you ever wondered what the scene is like in Ireland - here is a little basic info with a brief introduction about myself:
I am 23. First opioid i tried was Palfium (dextromoramide - which is abit more potent than morphine) when i was 16. Followed shortly by heroin. By the age of 17 i made a quick transition from the foil to syringe and occasional use made way for full time occupation. I was in my last year at school but somehow managed to pass all my exams and did quite well, considering my all-consuming 'hobbie'. Come to think of it I am now more inclined to think that I only did that well in exams because i had heroin every day of the last semester.
The problems only started after the summer holidays, when my inheritance fund dried up.
First thing i sold was my PS2 along with a good few games. Then, my dvd player, cd collection and my beloved Fender Jag. within about a month or two my room would be empty of any valuable belongings.
But I didn's stop there. First i would ask my parents for various 'loans' and it didnt's take long before they got suspicious.
Shortly after that I was kicked out of the house, for pawning my parents' belongings.
I stayed with various friends, in squats and even slept rough a couple of days. This routine lasted another 3 months. It was very painfull to realise that I could degrade so fast over a bunch of dust people stash in their anuses. Still, I just couldn't last longer than 3-4 days in withdrawal. I would beg, steal and borrow and eventually allways ended up back on the horse.
Eventually I swallowed my pride and came back to my parents for help. I was in tears as soon as i saw them. They were more than willing to help. My dad offered to take me abroad, away from the scene, but i felt that was abit to much for me at the time.
I went to the Drug Treatment Centre in Dublin, which is a Government-sponsored organisation that does reaserch, psychological and medical treatment for various drug addictions (namely heroin and cocaine) and boasts the biggest Methadone clinic in the country within its walls.
After waiting another month and a half(which is quite quickby irish standards) and a few assesments I was put on lime-green Methadone(1mg/ml racemic mix). one week before that i had to give my first supervised urine test, of which i had to give 3 in total in the first week prior to starting the program. All three of them were opiate positive, which i guess is the norm. For my first month on the program I would have to give a supervised urine sample twice every week. After that and to this day it would be once every week and always closely supervised. A bit too closely if you ask me. If you cant provide a sample you have to try again anyhow for the next hour and a half. If you still cant provide one by the end of your visit, your urine sample would automatically be deemed 'dirty' and you would be docked 5 mils of your dose.they're very strict in this regard. There are exceptions, but very rarely. Depends on the doctor and his mood.
Everybody gets a starting dose of 20 mils but they would gradually increase it by 5-10 mils------------------------------------------
Over the next month/s you would usually increase your dosage much more. How much more depends entirely on how much you can whinge and moan and how convincing you are. a lot also depends on the doctor youre assigned to. I am currently on 85 mils (quite standard dose at our clinic) which took me a few months of moaning and groaning, but at the start it really did feel like i didn't have enough. i know a few people on 140 mils which is considered a high dose here
All methadone in Ireland is free by the way, always has been, even if you've no insurance. thats why i was quite surprised to learn that in places like US you have to pay for your juice.
When you first start on the program here you have to come in every day. After a month, if your urine is clean of opiates and benzos(on which they are surprisingly strict here) you get your first take home bottle, which they always give you either saturday or sunday. Another month of clean urines - you get another take-home, and so forth. So far i've got 5 take homes, which means i only have to come in on tuesdays and fridays. this took me over 3 years to accomlish. If your urine comes up 'dirty', ie opiate/benzo, and in rare cases coke positive, you lose one of your take homes. Again - there can be exceptions, all depends on your honesty, use history, behaviour and doctor's mood.
Once you test positive for opiates, they give you a week to clear it up. If you stil test positive in a week, they put a yellow sticker on your chart and take another of your take homes(which you can 'earn' back in a months time). If that test is still positive they put a blue sticker on your chart. and if the next urine is still positive they stick a red sticker on your chart. you can clear any sticker within a four weeks.
So basicaly, if say you have a blue sticker on your chart and your urines have been clean for three weeks, but on the forth you get a positive, they give you a RED STICKER.
Once you get a red sticker they still give you a week to clear your urine. If it doesnt come back clean, well then your on the 'night train' as the local junkies say. which means that all your take homes are taken of you( if any) and youre brought down to 20 mils over the course of the week no matter what your stabilised dosage was. Youre also allocated a particular time slot at wich to appear at the clinic, usually in the afternoon whereas if you still have your full privilages, you can come in any time between 9am to 5pm. 'Night train' lasts 5 weeks and is a right bummer as you can see.
I myself did manage to get on it once at the start of my 'treatment', and it sucked bollocks big time. First you get angry and say something along the lines of "fuck this shit! I aint coming back to this shithole for some stinking 20 mils!! you can stick them up your ass!!" but then 2-3 days go by and youre knocking that door down screaming "Give me my fucking 20 mils!"
At our clinic youre onlly allowed 2 red stickers in your chart history. Get your third night train and your out of the clinic for good. Chances are you won't ever be able to get back on it or any other one for that one, Although we don't actually have to many of them. Ours is a small county and most of the few clinics you get are in the capital - Dublin.
That doesn't mean that there is no drug problem in our country. There is in fact quite a big heroin/cocaine problem in Dublin. Waiting lists to get on methadone are ridiculously long, sometimes as long as 5 months! I got very lucky.
There are on the other hand a lot of 'harm-reduction' projects like needle exchange points(i can think of 10 different places to get cleen needles in the city all legitimate), where they don't just give you clean needles, citric, water, swabs, condoms, etc., theres actually a nurse present at the needle exchange place, that would show you how to inject properly( without actually injecting ofcourse). From what i gather the situation is alot more lax on this particular subject at least, than in say the US where I keep hearing horror stories of set up stings where cops actually pretend to be drug dealers. That kind of malarkey is aLMOST UNIMAGINABLE OVER HERE. theres even been talk of actuall legit shooting galleries, but nothing just yet.
Thats not to say we dont get hassled by the cops here. We do but much more rarely and leniantely. I remember one of my mates has actually been let of with just his id details taken after a cop searched him and found a baggie of heroin on him. I have been let of without arrest with a few extasy tablets, no shit! The cops here seem to concentrate mostly on big-time dealers.
By all accounts though, methadone clinics in Ireland seem to be more strict that in the US. That might be because it's all gov-ment sponsored.
I have been on the done over 3 and a half years now and do feel tied up in many ways by it. The next step for me I suppose would be to try to transfer to a GP (general practitioner - private doctor), and get my methadone from him. this is another system here, also free of charge(SAVE FOR CONSULTATION FEE) which is even more difficult to get on to. you have to be at the clinic for at least 2 years, which is atick for me, before you can get a transfer to a GP which gives you a script for done once or twise a month, and also takes your urine. You then get your done in a pharmacy (still liquid-we never get done tabs over this side of the pond). This system appears to be much more flexible and lax and is the next step for me, on my road hopefully, to recovery. I am talking to my counsellor at the clinic abouth this move, but theres also along waiting list for this. Fingers crossed...
Anyways, sorry for making a book out of it. Just in case youre ever curious about some basic aspects of methadone treatment in Ireland.
I would love to hear about the system in other European countries, or anywhere around the world for that matter, feel free to share, would appreciate any info or any stories on the subject.
Thanks! :)