Difference??

[ProdigalSon]

Can someone please tell me the pros and cons of tar? NOT OPINION, that cockshits all over the web. Tar looks like flatroofpatch to me. Never seen it. The shit I always see looked like the picks in moonrockd thread. Is it stronger. Duckfeet would be my man on this and when I hit that lottery, keep that E-Mail valid bro

[jayemp420]

cons: tar is nasty mexican-arsehole stuffed half morphine-quarterheroin-quarterwhoknowswhatelse that is probably atleast 6 months old and not stored correctly. pros: i 'guess' ill get you outta withdrawal....other then that , none

if you liv eon the west coast and can only get tar, i reccommend you dont do heroin, dilaudid(hydromorphone) opana(oxymorphone) oxycontin(oxycodone - sniffed/injected) and hell most likely even pharmaceutical morphine will give you a MUCH stronger, cleaner, cheaper high..... do what u want man its ur money but unless u can move to the east coast and get dope that actually gets u high thats what id recommend....and sorry if sound like an asshole im just havin a bad day

[Duckfeet]

That's funny u mentioned me. Since, I'm pretty down on tar, and it'd be better if Insaneike or somebody who actually knows something about the makeup/chemistry of the shit would weigh in. I don't really trust my own take on it, it might be a bit unfair, since I had just came off a long period of no drugs at all--seven years--and before that, it was mostly dilaudids, since I lived in the southland, where that was main opiate available, and this was before oxycontin got big, and k4's were still king. My heroin days go back to Vietnam, and California before tar, when it was just powder--heavily cut--but still recognizable as heroin.

Truthfully, I was kicking dilaudids and norcos and other crap out here, when someone helped me out--really--and turned me onto their tar connect so I wouldn't be sick. And I was so glad to be getting well, and to getting blasted that I didn't pay a lot of attention. and I had some money stashed...But soon enough I noticed that I never got the blissful feeling I remembered from powder...and periodically I did get some NE coast powder that brought it all back. Like I said: somebody needs to weigh in who knows--not just guesses--how this shit is made, because my guess is--just like crank--that the mexicans don't make it as well as the golden triangle and French used to...just a guess, but it sure seems crappier.

But I over the next several months I did get a serious habit going. Tried all kinds of shit to detox and well, u know how it is, wasn't successful, but veins were also playing hell. all that stuff is true: tar is hell on veins...

so eventually got back on methadone, which I liked a lot at first...now, I don't know, the side effects got me blue.

I know that was just more of the same what u've been hearing, pillophile, and I hope somebody more knowledgable than me chimes in, brother...

df


Can someone please tell me the pros and cons of tar? NOT OPINION, that cockshits all over the web. Tar looks like flatroofpatch to me. Never seen it. The shit I always see looked like the picks in moonrockd thread. Is it stronger. Duckfeet would be my man on this and when I hit that lottery, keep that E-Mail valid bro

[CSiiSEQ]

Pill, what kind of info would be helpful for you? You mentioned pros and cons, so I can give you a few of those. If there is something specific, just yell - I'm not sure how much detail you're looking for.

Cons:


very rough on the veins (internally - iv use of course!) *I have a theory about this, its at the end of my list
Tends to make thicker solutions making it more difficult to filter effectively- leading to risks of infection, abcess and emboli
lower concentration than typical powdered dope (but- quite a bit cheaper $30 - 70/gram vs. $100 - 200/g powder)
Due to the synthesis protocol (really due to the crudely purified starting material) you may see other acetylated alkaloids - could be pro or con!
Not so convenient for the snorters, powder is easier to deal with if using your nose!
Being of a strange consistency, can lead to bizarre or even dangerous cuts - powder has its share of strange cuts, but think about it, what couldn't you mix in with tar???Pros:

Contains diacetylmorphine! Yay for tar!
Has an interesting consistency giving it potential for disguise
Did I mention there is dope in it???
Due to the synthesis process (really the crudely purified starting material) you may see other acetylated alkaloids - could be pro or con!
Easy to get into solution for shooting, easy to smoke (can be trickier to snort)*My vein damage theory for tar (only): I think there is quite a bit of acetic acid in the final (what you shoot) product- I haven't personally determined the concentration- (haven't had tar in quite a while not on my coast). Many people comment on the vinegar smell and even use it to recognize heroin vs. another substance. It's very possible and likely that the pH of the solutions of tar are significantly lower than powder. Acidic solutions can easily damage veins (and the surrounding tissue if infiltration or extravisation occurs) and are considered vesicants.

[Duckfeet]

The above was a great post. Is there a layman's explanation of what the difference is between tar, and what I always called heroin before I bumped into tar? I never seem to get what I consider the subtle heroin rush off of tar, and wondered if there's an ingrediant or step in the chemical process, missing? Anyway, thanks for informative post. Makes a lot of sense, with my recent experience...

[CSiiSEQ]

Is there a layman's explanation of what the difference is between tar, and what I always called heroin before I bumped into tar?

Thanks! Sure there's an explanation- whether it's a good laymen's one you'll have to let me know!

I'm assuming by the phrase "what I called heroin before I bumped into tar" is referring to US east coast powder (or similar), would that be correct? If so....

When the powdered version is made, morphine is fairly extensively purified (when compared to tar) to give the chemists plain-old morphine to start with. These guys have been around for quite a bit longer than our Mexican chemists and so they have established reactions that give the best yield with materials available to them. Catalyzed acetylation by acetic anhydride are the norm, not true with the Mexicans. All that means is that they use acetic anhydride for the acetylation, in addition they add other "helper chemicals" to make the reaction more efficient, to speed it up, and to make the synth conditions less harsh. The Mexican chemists on the other hand, came into the game much later. I believe it was mid to late 60's but don't quote me on that. I know it was before my time!

Frequently, tar is explained or defined as acetylated opium. This isn't true at all! There are even some articles in the scientific literature that state this. If this were the case, tar would be even worse than it is (purity - and strength-wise)! Mexican black tar comes from the acetylation of a very crude morphine extract. They do not use the same method as the powder chemists and end up with a product that can contain many other things - some good and some either useless or not good.

Since they are starting with this crude extract of opium, there is not as much morphine available during the acetylation reaction (the one that turns morphine into heroin) - this is why tar's purity is low. I'm not sure how it runs now, but it can run as low at 10 - 30%. Another thing the Mexicans did and I'm not sure if they did this because they had a hard time getting a hold off acetic anhydride or what the reason was, but they use a completely different acetylation reaction. It's not as efficient as the ones done during powdered h synthesis, so often times there is plain morphine left in the final product - you'll hear tar users talk about more histamine reactions than powder users (the itchies, raised bumps that aren't missed shorts, etc.).

[Ragdoll]

Excellent info, CS. Thanks.

[phrozen]

Good post CS. It is a common misconception that tar is simply acetylated opium. For obvious reasons, the number one being the diacetylmorphine %, it is simply not true. I would also like to mention that during the process, the Mexican chemists aren't as meticulous when it comes to refining. By that I mean, they don't use as much activated charcoal, and don't perform the final ether based refining step. Hopefully this will change soon. There is some evidence that they are finally starting to work on their process. This can be seen by the higher heroin content that tar is beginning to have.

The cons and pros were summed up pretty well. I'd like to add a couple more. Tar contains a lot more organic material than powdered dope. This can cause serious damage if a shot is missed. Also, tar's consistency is a far more ideal for bacterial growth. And, the final solution is typically extremely dark, which can make it difficult to assess whether you have registered properly.

A positive would be it's price. Gram per gram it is cheaper. But of course the price reflects purity as well.
You get what you pay for.

[nick]

The pros are it's dope.

The cons are it's dope.


Bro,please don't get in to H......tar or powder.

Starting is easy......stopping is HARD.

[Duckfeet]

I'm glad you mentioned also, as a con, the fact that it's darkness makes it that much easier to miss, and more of it gets spread around in nasty areas, and the fact that it so quickly becomes abcesses and other crap. I still wonder why even tho I get knocked out by the rush, and get good and strung out, it just doesn't give me that euphoria that the powder does. When I do a shot of good heroin, there is no comparable feeling, not even dilaudids, that give me that sense of well-being and plain old happiness. I have never gotten that from tar. Who knows. Great thread, and so glad you guys with some chemical knowledge weighed in!

Good post CS. It is a common misconception that tar is simply acetylated opium. For obvious reasons, the number one being the diacetylmorphine %, it is simply not true. I would also like to mention that during the process, the Mexican chemists aren't as meticulous when it comes to refining. By that I mean, they don't use as much activated charcoal, and don't perform the final ether based refining step. Hopefully this will change soon. There is some evidence that they are finally starting to work on their process. This can be seen by the higher heroin content that tar is beginning to have.

The cons and pros were summed up pretty well. I'd like to add a couple more. Tar contains a lot more organic material than powdered dope. This can cause serious damage if a shot is missed. Also, tar's consistency is a far more ideal for bacterial growth. And, the final solution is typically extremely dark, which can make it difficult to assess whether you have registered properly.

A positive would be it's price. Gram per gram it is cheaper. But of course the price reflects purity as well.
You get what you pay for.

[chopstix]

I've always wondered why I would sometimes get tar that gave a HUGE pins and needles rush, just like what people who shoot M describe - sometimes that shit leaves you red faced for hours. I have little knowledge of the chemistry behind the manufacture of H so the above helps explain a lot, some black dope actually does have high levels of crude morphine.

Regarding the acidity; I've used tar off and on for a long time, always IV although very rarely smoked (I hate smoking that nasty shit). I've heard several times that you can mix it in water and sniff or drip it in your nose. I'm going easy these days and don't always have a rig, which was the case yesterday when I bought a lil piece and knew it would be a few hours before I could get a rig, so I tried the nose drops thing - NASTY!! It's like trying to snort vinegar!! Fuck if I'll try that again (although it did work and I got a little glow), no wonder the shit is hard on veins, it really is quite acidic. I wonder if a little baking soda would help neutralize the PH so as to make it a little easier on tissue for insufflating/IR/IM or even easier on the veins for IV? This morning I can feel some rawness in back of my nose and I didn't do very much because it was so nasty..

Good info CS, thanks..

[pharmboy]

IF you shoot it do yourself a favor and get some PH paper (pet
store, fish section ) and ph adjust the stuff to around 6 to 7 with
baking soda. Your viens will thank you.

[OxyContagious]

You can shoot baking soda with your solution? Are you sure thats safe? If so I would defiantly do this as it is very acidic. (Have you ever tasted a little drop that comes out of the rig when your trying to get all the bubbles out? Very acidic)

[rachamim18]

There have been some good posts here so I will not get anal retentive about facts. To sum it up, Tar is techincally #4 heroin believe it or not, but is made almost identically to Homebaked heroin. The Mexicans producing Tar use pyridine to speed up conversion to the intermediate and this is the kety to the gooey consistency usually found in tar. The color itself comes from the lack of activated carbon, as in charcoal, and is almost meaningless in terms of overall purity. Additonally, to produce heroin you need to acetylyse morphine. You can do this with any Glacial Acetic Acid but Acetic Anhydride is most efficeint. Mexicans had a difficult time getting hold of AA so instead usually rely on Acetyl Cholride or even less efficient forms.

Some will tell you that Tar is better because it cannot be adulterated as easily as powdered heroin but this si nonsense. By converting to liquid, carmelising lactose, and recrystallisation you vcan adulterate it any way you want.

There is one true advantage though, price. Kilo wise, on average, it is 2/3rds cheaper in the States as compared to #4.

This advantage though should be considered along with "Tar's risks, mainly bacteria,etc. Abcess is much easier. Botulism is a hazard,general sepsis,etc...

I would reocmmend anyone doing Tar to purify it and microfiler it. I real;ise that purification is usally not an option for most but micro-filtering is easily had and should never be ommitted.

[Duckfeet]

So then you're saying that tar is still heroin, and I should get heroin-like feelings when I do it, if I"m reading this right. Now it could be just because I'm right by the border, that I"m getting border crap, but only thing I know, is I've yet to get that creep-up-on-you euphoria rush that I always got from good powder. I mean, if I do enough tar, I get knocked out, need to sit down, feel like I"m o.d.ing, and I definitely get good and strung out...but I never once--and I shot up tar for months--got that euphoria rush...and that's why I wondered if it was in the way tar was made, or if it probably was just that I had poor quality tar? Because in the middle of being strungout on tar, I had some bro who got me some NE good baltimore powder, and it was like night and day, the rush was immediate euphoria, and u never forget what that is like...so, at least where I sit, I think the is missing something....

[chrisinabox]

ive never had powder but the tar i get here gives me alot of good euphoria when i shoot it. i'm sure its not as good as powder but its definitely good enough to me. and i agree about tar being bad on veins too. my veins are already hardening and i've only been shooting for 6 months. i wish we could get some good powder down here in texas.

[Duckfeet]

Yep, for some reason I just can't remember what I thought of it, when I was doing it down in se texas...but good chance it was just the tar right here in socal that was crappy. When I was up in Houston, years ago, u could get dilaudids all day long, but dope was harder to come by...that tar is showing up everywhere tho...I worry it'll take over, since it's made closer and junkies'll buy anything, when its around, so tar might replace powder in more and more places, like it did out here in California...

ive never had powder but the tar i get here gives me alot of good euphoria when i shoot it. i'm sure its not as good as powder but its definitely good enough to me. and i agree about tar being bad on veins too. my veins are already hardening and i've only been shooting for 6 months. i wish we could get some good powder down here in texas.