Opiates and Interferon

[mrklean]

Ok, I am starting this thread inorder to get some feedback before making important decisions for myself about going through treatment for HepC. Hopefully, the info that gathers here will be helpful to others as well. I think that most of the info may be similar for those going through chemo or HIV treatments.

My situation: Forgive the detail I give here. I have never properly introduced myself on Opiophile (that I can remember) so this is a bit of a bio. I am currently clean after years of pretty intense usage of a healthy variety of substances. I do occasionally slip up and have a few beers or something similar for the last few months I haven't even done that though; and after hearing that my liver functions are still abnormal I am really not planning on touching any alcohol, and don't foresee a real problem abstaining. In the time(years) since stopping hard opiates I have had a small problem with Hydro but haven't had any problems staying off that since I stopped with subs/kratom (a year ago?). Ok, so I'm clean and have decided it is time to take care of the HepC geno 1a I contracted using irresponsibly. So far, I have only been to the doctor and discussed treatment and had blood work. In the next month or so I plan to start the interferon. Now, just going to have my blood drawn really is a major thing for me. I hate the healthcare system and don't like other people putting needles in me especially when it isn't going to get me high. This whole situation is already putting alot of weight on me mentally and I haven't even started the treatment yet. I am pretty scared about the interferon and the more I read the more I read the more I realize how shitty interferon might be. However, my junky brain sees an obvious answer to all of these problems and more; buy as many pods as I can afford and use tea to help me through what may be one of the tougher things I go through in my life. But, is this a smart idea? I am pretty much housebound right now do to lack of transportation and this situation is only gonna get worse if I have bad side effects from the treatment. I feel very happy with my sobriety right now and am afraid of having to go through the depression which I foresee after coming off the pods when I am though the interferon. Having gone through it so many times in the past I think I could probably handle it better than the possible Interferon induced depression which I beleive the pods would obliterate. Atleast if I get into pods I know what to expect when quitting time comes. I'm sure the doctor will recommend an SSRI to cope but I really, really don't want to take them for a slew of reasons. Pods just seem like the perfect solution for making interferon barable, and I really don't want to give up do to side effects, especially mental ones.

Questions: Has anyone else been through interferon and used opiates to help with the side effects? Is an ex hard dope fiend going to be able to maintain themselves through months of interferon treatment using pods without going into the poor house? Should I just stop being a pussy and deal with the side effects that I deserve to get and not even consider going back on opiates? Can anyone estimate how much money I will have to spend to stay comfortable using pods?

Thanks friends for reading through my babble I know there was alot more I wanted to discuss but I am getting tired of typing and am sure you are tired of reading.

[Duckfeet]

I just want to say that I did that same treatment, about four years ago, w/same genotype 1A, and it was succesful...I was a longhaul trucker at the time, and after first time or two, I didn't even notice the stuff, and worked thru it all. Was only on it 5-6 months, and they took me off because my white blood cell count got too low, but it knoced the hepC right out of me, and I have been non-detectable ever since.

Since I had heard about all the depression other people had, I got on prozac when I was doing it, and I was also sober, and hadn't done any opiates at all during it, so I can't help u w/the pods thing...but again, some people have problems with it, but others find it's no big deal at all...but the treatment *can* work, and if it does, it's a hell of a lot better than *not* doing it, and finding out later you might need a transplant, as two of my friends have had to do...

Anyway, it might not be bad at all, I wouldn't work it up to being a bad thing in yer head, as some guys do...I tended to downplay it, and not let it get to me, and that worked...

But mostly, just wanted to wish u good luck, a lot of people find it's not that bad, and shit, it can save yer life...

Best wishes...

[flipside]

I've been on interferon for treament of my lupus, ( and a mis diagnosis of hep B & C) I have been on and off opriates drung the few rounds of treatment I had.

I too was on Prozac and sober with the first couple of rounds. the 2nd 2 I was opiated..and found my depression to be much more pronounced while usong and having tratment. Although I ma predisposed to sever depression..and that does seem to be an infulence on how people will respond to treatment and depression or not.

Also if you plan on staying clean, I would not start mesing with pods and risk unleashing your active adiction all over again. There are a lot of new anti-depressant meds out there..the most important thinking is to work with you doctor and be procative,,have a plan in place ( in writiing as part of your treatemnt plan) befor you start treatment.

The side effects can be nasty..others they seem not to bother.

I know what you mean about using opiates bc at least you know what to expect when it's time to come off..and while I totally get that..the unfamiliar and not knowing what to expect is frightening..but returning to something because it's all we know is a trap I as an addict fall into every time..and the price I end up paying in the end is never worth it.

Ultimatley the decision is yours, but I would try to styay away from the pods...just my 2 cents

if you ever want to talk..feel free to e-mail, it's in my profile

Best of Luck, this is scary and it is a big deal..but you don't have to go it alone. I don't know how you feel about support groups but a lot of hep C support groups are out there and can be very valuable. I can help you find one if you like.

In fact in the near future we hope to have a resource section for referrals to treatment, testing, support groups etc here in harm reduction. As well as a froum for people who have hep to be able to share thier experiences.

When I was miasdiagnosed with hep B & C..no one ever bothered to do a PCR until I saw a GI who sent one off and it came back negative..Lupus is what killed my liver..but I was undergoing treatment for Hep and already on a transplant ,list before they fiugured out the real cause of my liver disease with the PCR and a liver biopsy.

Keep us posted, please..

[mrklean]

Hell yeah thanks for the response Duckfeet. That is cool that you were able to go about your life as normal and continue working and everything while you were on treatment. Driving trucks long distances no less? Did you discontinue the prozac after treatment, and was it difficult to come off? Were you able to work during those first few weeks of treatment?

Your post gives me more confidence to try and handle the treatment without resorting to opiates. I'm pretty sure that if I did start using pods I would not be able to use them responsibly and the abuse would probably quickly become a bigger issue than the interferon treatment, and any associated side effects. I am going to try the treatment and see how my body reacts to it, before making any decisions about opiates. My addict brain is definately working overtime trying to find a way to convince me to get back on dope, and I am afraid that sometime in the course of this treatment I will give in to one of these side effects as an excuse to use. I don't really have easy access to any kind of twelve step or support group do to lack of transportation, and being way the hell out in the boonies. I really don't subscribe wholeheartedly to twelve stepping anyways. Using opiates in this off label non prescribed medicinal manner is I guess what I am really grappling with. Everyone I've met in NA would just keep saying "it's your disease telling you to use pods, you'll end up right were you started or worse" etc. etc. But, I've yet to meet anyone who knows about pods/ seed tea/ kratom and other helpful mostly legal alternatives in the 12 step rooms. Let alone someone who is also going though hepC treatment. This is where alot of my problems with 12 step programs stem from; they are way too black and white about alot of things. With the healthcare system denying the proper treatment to just about everyone especially those needing opiates, how am I supposed to have an honest conversation with a doctor about this kind of thing? It really seems like something that needs to be discussed more with my family than the doctors. So any more feedback I could get from you good people would be very nice. Thankyou again duckfeet for your response, I am not trying to downplay the whole thing in my mind but, I can see how that would help alleviate alot of the stress I'm putting on myself. I'm just gonna try and take it moment by moment for right now (the twelve steppers love to do that).

To any healthcare pros reading this a few questions: If a person was going through this same interferon treatment for HepC and they had no history of addiction what would be the likelyhood of opiates being prescribed to them to cope with side effects? What if they were opposed to taking the commonly prescibed medications for the mental side effects? Do you think my doctor will slap me if I ask for benzos to deal with the anxiety I am experiencing? Are there alternatives here I am not aware of? I mean bottom line this is alot for me to deal with right now and I want some chemical help. A case of beer a week would be, in my mind, the perfect thing. Obviously, that is not an option because of the hep. What alternative could I ask my doctor about and maybe be listened to?

[flipside]

You can probably get benzo's, pssiblely to narcotics..depending on the amount of pain. My girlfriend is on OC for her hep realataed liver pain so? It's really just a crapshoot with the Dr's.

[Duckfeet]

There's more to this story, and being a *talkative* motherfucker...but anyway, I ended up w/K2's (dilaudids). And began another downhill slide...but anyway.

This started back in 1994, when hepC was fairly new on the horizon, it was still often called nonA nonB hep, and the only serious treatment was Interferon by itself. Also, the World Wide Web was still under construction, so I started a hepC mailing list, on a Listserve set-up, and kind of like Opy, we kept getting bigger, and I had to find a server that could handle our size, we got up to around 1000 people, and it reminded me of this place. But it was also all we had, and there were so many myths going around so we swapped notes on the treatments and such.

First off: main thing, is to find a good doc, either a hepatologist, or a gastroenterologist who specializes. I--and others--found the *teaching* hospitals were the best, and I would check online to see if Doc is up to speed and has been published.

We found that a small percentage had really serious side effects with Interferon, and that lots of people, had flu-like symptoms for first few times, but that it went away, and then u didn't notice it as much: that was my experience: 1st shot flu-like side effects, then I didn't notice it. Harder for me was having the ability to get syringes....and I lied to doc about having pain, and I conned and manipulated him until he perscribed me 50-100 dilaudids a month...#2's but still...they worked, but I slipped u know, I was doing really well up until then, had 5 years sober. I always went to AA, still do, don't like NA, and in AA the don't discuss--or shouldn't discuss--anything other than alcoholism, so my methadone and stuff is none of their business, and I don't tolerate people who want to kill alkies w/their narrow-minded treatment center absorbed opinions.

But anyway, this doc was really bright, but treatment of Interferon alone didn't work...Second time, I got the combo, what u get now: Ribivirin and Interferon together, and they worked for me. I don't know if I really was depressed or not, but I took the prozac, "just because," I'd read so much, and thought maybe that is why I had "gone back out," while on interferon the 1st time. Knowing what I know now, about Endoprhins and since I'm no longer trucking, I would get on methadone maintenance, as it has anti-depressant qualities for me, and it would help in this area....but it's methadone, and of course, there's a price to pay...

But anyway, I didn't even notice the shots after first week, and my liver function scores immediately dropped way down to normal levels, and like I said, it never returned, and that is considered *success* by docs and by me....

But I notice some people did have problems with the treatment...but because I was the listmaster, I got to see the big picture and I realized that the people with the most problems with interferon seemed to be the people who had the most problems with everything, so I learned that attitude wasn't *everything* but it mattered a whole lot...

But like I said: I have two friends who have had transplants, and have known of deaths from hepC. Both of these scenarios kind of suck, so I would recommend anybody that can, at least *try* the treatment, see if it works...it saved my life...

You--or anybody--feel free to PM or email me on this, and I"ll be glad to share any info/experience I have...and I like Flip's idea of eventually starting a good sub-Forum just for this, as just about *every* longtime IV user has HepC....

Keep me informed and best wishes to u and all my friends who have this problem..

--duckfeet

Hell yeah thanks for the response Duckfeet. That is cool that you were able to go about your life as normal and continue working and everything while you were on treatment. Driving trucks long distances no less? Did you discontinue the prozac after treatment, and was it difficult to come off? Were you able to work during those first few weeks of treatment?

Your post gives me more confidence to try and handle the treatment without resorting to opiates. I'm pretty sure that if I did start using pods I would not be able to use them responsibly and the abuse would probably quickly become a bigger issue than the interferon treatment, and any associated side effects. I am going to try the treatment and see how my body reacts to it, before making any decisions about opiates. My addict brain is definately working overtime trying to find a way to convince me to get back on dope, and I am afraid that sometime in the course of this treatment I will give in to one of these side effects as an excuse to use. I don't really have easy access to any kind of twelve step or support group do to lack of transportation, and being way the hell out in the boonies. I really don't subscribe wholeheartedly to twelve stepping anyways. Using opiates in this off label non prescribed medicinal manner is I guess what I am really grappling with. Everyone I've met in NA would just keep saying "it's your disease telling you to use pods, you'll end up right were you started or worse" etc. etc. But, I've yet to meet anyone who knows about pods/ seed tea/ kratom and other helpful mostly legal alternatives in the 12 step rooms. Let alone someone who is also going though hepC treatment. This is where alot of my problems with 12 step programs stem from; they are way too black and white about alot of things. With the healthcare system denying the proper treatment to just about everyone especially those needing opiates, how am I supposed to have an honest conversation with a doctor about this kind of thing? It really seems like something that needs to be discussed more with my family than the doctors. So any more feedback I could get from you good people would be very nice. Thankyou again duckfeet for your response, I am not trying to downplay the whole thing in my mind but, I can see how that would help alleviate alot of the stress I'm putting on myself. I'm just gonna try and take it moment by moment for right now (the twelve steppers love to do that).

To any healthcare pros reading this a few questions: If a person was going through this same interferon treatment for HepC and they had no history of addiction what would be the likelyhood of opiates being prescribed to them to cope with side effects? What if they were opposed to taking the commonly prescibed medications for the mental side effects? Do you think my doctor will slap me if I ask for benzos to deal with the anxiety I am experiencing? Are there alternatives here I am not aware of? I mean bottom line this is alot for me to deal with right now and I want some chemical help. A case of beer a week would be, in my mind, the perfect thing. Obviously, that is not an option because of the hep. What alternative could I ask my doctor about and maybe be listened to?

[mrklean]

Thanks Flip, you guys so far have been a really wonderful place to seek support. I am immensely grateful for everything you in particular have contributed not just here but in a number of other threads. Thankyou so much. I can see how opiates could definately make depression seem worse. Opiates are starting to look alot less like the solution to dealing with this. They are my DOC, I guess that is why they seemed like such a good idea. Unless someone else states that they couldn't have done it without opiates then I think it is smartest to exclude them from my treatment plan.

After reading of Flip's misdiagnoses I am much more inclined to go ahead with a liver biopsy if my doctor wants to do it. I was really trying to avoid one but, I guess I will try and go ahead with it.

I really don't want to go on any antidepressants, especially newer ones. I guess I could be persuaded but not by a doctor unless they were also an addict. I'm just not really into proactively medicating mybrain. If there are symptoms I am all about alleviating them as they occur. I just don't want to drop pills everyday because I was depressed yesterday.

The side effect which scares me with the interferon the most is the severe depressive attacks which as I understand it can come out of nowhere and be severe. I can't imagine an attack like this that a rig full of oxymorphone wouldn't turn into a bed of roses. The problem is that after I fixed it once I would probably convince myself that the attacks were recurring with increased frequency, and intensity, and I would keep on fixing. Now, there has to be something out there that I could take only if and when necessary that isn't an opiate?

[mrklean]

I'm glad you are a talkative mfer Duck, I am bored out of my mind today and it's good to have some people to talk to. I always wonder about peoples histories with relapse and your story is very applicable to my situation and cool to read. I also was thinking about what I was gonna do with all those easy to come by rigs. I'm going to have someone else hold on to them for me after reading your story. It is so good to know that there are people who have been through it and come out on the good side.

[candy]

I myself went through the treatment with Interferon and Ribaviron for the the 48 weeks and test as undetectable at this point.

One thing to remember is that everyone responds differently as some of the other posters stated.
My suggestion is to track your symptoms when you start treatment and when you go to the doctor you can discuss them and find the best treatment options for you to treat symptoms and side-effects.

The one suggestion I give to those I counsel is to try and stop the use of illicit drugs before starting Hep C treatment and to address the addictions to any narcotic.
What I have witnessed is that most of my clients were less likely to be compliant with treatment when using drugs not prescribed.
If your in a state that will allow for Marijuana as a treatment for side-effects, I would recommend that as well as recent research has shown that those who use Marijuana to treat side-effects suffer from less depression, increases their appetite, and can ease pain.

I know I may have said I don't recommend illicit drug use , but I am an advocate for the use of pot to relieve the suffering in patients with chronic illness/pain and those going through treatment for cancer, Hep C and other illnesses that cause unpleasant and disabling side-effects.

If you are prescribed Pegasys, which is Interferon. It is called Pegasys as it is pegulated in such a way that only weekly injections are needed. I hope that makes sense. It is just a chemical process used to avoid daily injections of Interferon. The drug company that produces Pegasys has a good website that you can join to track your symptoms and lab work results and get great info on treatment.

Hep C can be a scary time for many who have it and are facing treatment.
Try to ignore the horror stories of others. While they may have experienced those bad side-effects, you may respond in a different way and not so disabled by the meds.

As I said, try and stay away from opiates now so you will be ready for treatment. It can be hard on the body and getting a jump start on healthy behaviors now, will only increase your chances for sticking with the treatment and getting through it all.
There are some patients who quit taking the meds because they can tolerate the symptoms. But, you also find that those who could not hang it out, were less likely to ask their doctor for help regarding easing those symptoms.

And I agree on staying away from alcohol and taking products that contain acetaminophen which is not good for the liver. These are such drugs like Tylenol or contain acetaminophen.

Hope this info helps and you have received some great posts from other members who can relate.

Good luck!

[noahzark]

Wow you people a are so brave.
Can I ask this?
How do you feel after being off the Interferon? Do you feel any sides?
Do youhave more energy sice beating Hep-C?

There are so many people that dont even know they have it. A scary thing that I truly hope the world somehow is able to wipe out through technoligy. I have known quite a few people who have suffered and some got hit by it worse then others,

Peace and love to anyone suffereing with Hep-c.

Noahzark

[Duckfeet]

Pegasys worked for me...I've been off it several years, didn't notice anything *on* the treatment, haven't noticed anything after I stopped. I didn't really have any symptoms when I *had* hepC. But after talking to a good doc, it seemed like a worthwhile effort, to take the treatment. Getting a transplant is a *huge* undertaking, and I would have to find out that I might have been able to avoid it by taking the medication, so I took the treatment, and it worked. There are all kinds of arguments...some believe that unless you have bad symptoms, you should just blow it off. It's a personal choice. I opted to get a biopsy, since the only real way to find out what's going on in the liver. biopsy, also, showed just a little bridging, liver in good shape...and I had been a hard drinker for many years, also, so beats me.

As I've said before, I'd see a really good liver-doc, read up on hepC, and then make best decision you can make, under the circumstances.

Wow you people a are so brave.
Can I ask this?
How do you feel after being off the Interferon? Do you feel any sides?
Do youhave more energy sice beating Hep-C?

There are so many people that dont even know they have it. A scary thing that I truly hope the world somehow is able to wipe out through technoligy. I have known quite a few people who have suffered and some got hit by it worse then others,

Peace and love to anyone suffereing with Hep-c.

Noahzark

[noahzark]

That is for sure, no one wants a transplant if they can help it. I dont understand how the interferon only works 50/50 in genotype 1A's. I also have 2 friends who have it but their levels are so low that they don't need treatment. One freind has a viral level of 350,000 which is pretty low as some peoples counts are in the millions and thy guy is torn on taking the interferon or not.

Duckfeet, you are so helpful, thanks for your input. Can I ask you what your viral level before treatment was?
Thanks


Noahzark

[Duckfeet]

I'm working from memory, but I think my viral load was round a million, but I'm not sure about that. My doc said--and I believe--that biopsy is the only real way to tell what the liver is doing, so I got biopsy, no big deal. The other thing he said, was that if it was *him* (the doc) he would have gone ahead with the treatment, even if he had no symptoms ( like me) so I agreed, and I did. Also, my viral load dropped down to non-detectable really quick, which I gather is a good sign. And remember, I was only on this for about five months, and because my blood count got real low or something, I had to get off it, but anyway, it worked, and I'm glad I tried it. A lot of the horror stories, you gotta remember, a lot of people were also hard core addicts, so had a lot of other problems going on. Both times I got treatment, I was doing well...I did slip on dilaudids, but that was *after* I started treatment the first time... Second time I didn't have any problems at all...but the doc didn't offer me dilaudids, either LOL... You can always quit the treatment if it gets bad, but a lot of people have no problem with it, like me, and I was glad I got it...

Again, u get next to a Barnes & Noble, or some other bookstore, I'd suggest picking up one of those little books explaining hepC and all the stuff...I mean a lots at stake, you really want to educate yourself on it, IMO. But you live in a good time, there are good treatments. Best of luck...


That is for sure, no one wants a transplant if they can help it. I dont understand how the interferon only works 50/50 in genotype 1A's. I also have 2 friends who have it but their levels are so low that they don't need treatment. One freind has a viral level of 350,000 which is pretty low as some peoples counts are in the millions and thy guy is torn on taking the interferon or not.

Duckfeet, you are so helpful, thanks for your input. Can I ask you what your viral level before treatment was?
Thanks


Noahzark

[mrklean]

..but the doc didn't offer me dilaudids, either LOL...

:D

That is fucking hilarious but,I guess it kind of sucks that it is so funny. Wouldn't it be great if we had to go through life turning down offers like that on a regular basis?

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, and I always look back on those two times, you know, wondering if I'm glad or sad that first doc offered me the d's. I mean, yeah, I lost everything, was working as a fucking *librarian* of all things, had five years sober, had a Harley Road King...lost it all...but on the other hand: a script for dilaudids? Fuck...that had *never* happened to me...he says, "any pain?" and I answer, yeah, you know, out of habit, and he says he can give me dilaudids...I don't know how I kept a straight face. *Dilaudids!* And I didn't have any pain... From hepC? Hell, I didn't even know I had it until the doc told me. And I milked that for several months, until some young intern got suspicious, and put a stop to it. Hell, I even went and visited my old lady in the pen in Louisiana, and smuggled some in to her LOL...

But of course, it ended like it always did, broke, strung out on heroin, hocking shit for a fix...hey, but it was fun for a while! Story of my life: I never had any sense of "delayed gratification."


:D
That is fucking hilarious but,I guess it kind of sucks that it is so funny. Wouldn't it be great if we had to go through life turning down offers like that on a regular basis?

[candy]

Wow you people a are so brave.
Can I ask this?
How do you feel after being off the Interferon? Do you feel any sides?
Do youhave more energy sice beating Hep-C?

There are so many people that dont even know they have it. A scary thing that I truly hope the world somehow is able to wipe out through technoligy. I have known quite a few people who have suffered and some got hit by it worse then others,

Peace and love to anyone suffereing with Hep-c.

Noahzark


I think it varies from person to person regarding treatment. Some experience depression and continue to experience some of the same symptoms they did while on treatment.
It can take up to 2 years to fully rid the body of the drug. That blew me away too!
But, as duckfeet said, you do not need to be symptomatic to start treatment.
Because of the livers ability to regenerate itself, symptoms usually show up when significant damage has been done.
I had already began to suffer cirrhosis and my viral load was 5 million.

One thing to remember is that while you are going to hear many people describe different symptoms and experiences, your experience may be different.

I suffered mostly from a difficulty in sleeping, eating, no appetite, and difficulty swallowing. I didn't start to lose any hair until the end of treatment. I wasn't bald, but my hair had thinned quite considerably, considering I have thick hair to begin with.

My suggestion for any IV drug user is to get tested. Most of us at some point have shared needles or equipment and Hep C is not killed off by bleaching needles. Even using the same rinse water, cooker, etc. Hep C can live outside the body for anywhere from 30 to 45 days(depends on who you ask or what you read)
Go get tested. Most clinics or testing sites are testing for both Hep C and HIV. If you should test negative at this first test, you should test again in six months. It can take the body some time to build antibodies to Hep C or HIV and that is what they look for in the test. Once you do test, it is best not to share at this point and to continue using your own needles and equipment. This goes for sex workers, or those who engage in high risk sexual activity.

It is scary, I know and I have been through it and I am still at levels of undetectable.
There are those few people who can clear the virus completely.
But, one thing to know that treatment is not a cure. And I don't say this to deter anyone.
It will give you a longer healthier life and by taking care of yourself, you can remain at undetectable levels. That is the goal to be at a level where the virus cannot be detected in the blood.

Even after treatment, it is important to continue to see your doctor per his/her instructions or at least every 1 or 2 years to get your liver enzymes checked and a viral load.

If anyone needs any further info, let me know and I will do what I can to get it for ya!

[edhorfin]

I did combo treatment twice. The first time, in 01, it worked great, but the virus came back right away. Sifde effects were pretty lousy for me. depression, and generally feeling shitty the whole time. That was a 24 week treatment. I just stopped a 48 week treatment because I hadn't cleared the virus after 6 months, and the predictors indicate that it wasn't going to work. This time I took lexapro and pods. They both helped a lot, but I wouldn't discount the pod habit you'll get. I was taking the pods before I started, but if I'd been clean, I probably would have tried to do the tx clean. I'm not suffering too many lasting side efx since stopping, but...

[noahzark]

Edhorfin, are you a 1A? did the pods help much? I would think that it might mask or counter the depression and bad feelings?
I have accually heard of some docs giving low doses of Vic's with the Interferon treatment.

[Duckfeet]

This was an excellent post, covering a lot of ground. Main thing I encourage people is to educate themselves on hepC and the treatment available. Nowadays there are all kinds of little books that you can read up on this. When it first came out, there wasn't a lot of info to go on, but now there is, and I think we can make educated choices, rather than go on rumor and opinions we might not trust.

Meant to give you points, Candy, but accidentally gave'em to edhorfin...which is cool, he must be doing something right, since Karma is pulling yer points his way ;-)

Best wishes to all you'all hepC is now treatable, and they get better at it all the time... like I said, I was only on treatment around five months, but it knocked it out of me early, and I've been non-detectable ever since


I think it varies from person to person regarding treatment. Some experience depression and continue to experience some of the same symptoms they did while on treatment.
It can take up to 2 years to fully rid the body of the drug. That blew me away too!

<snip>

If anyone needs any further info, let me know and I will do what I can to get it for ya!

[mrklean]

I think it varies from person to person regarding treatment. Some experience depression and continue to experience some of the same symptoms they did while on treatment.
It can take up to 2 years to fully rid the body of the drug. That blew me away too!
But, as duckfeet said, you do not need to be symptomatic to start treatment.
Because of the livers ability to regenerate itself, symptoms usually show up when significant damage has been done.
I had already began to suffer cirrhosis and my viral load was 5 million.

One thing to remember is that while you are going to hear many people describe different symptoms and experiences, your experience may be different.

I suffered mostly from a difficulty in sleeping, eating, no appetite, and difficulty swallowing. I didn't start to lose any hair until the end of treatment. I wasn't bald, but my hair had thinned quite considerably, considering I have thick hair to begin with.

My suggestion for any IV drug user is to get tested. Most of us at some point have shared needles or equipment and Hep C is not killed off by bleaching needles. Even using the same rinse water, cooker, etc. Hep C can live outside the body for anywhere from 30 to 45 days(depends on who you ask or what you read)
Go get tested. Most clinics or testing sites are testing for both Hep C and HIV. If you should test negative at this first test, you should test again in six months. It can take the body some time to build antibodies to Hep C or HIV and that is what they look for in the test. Once you do test, it is best not to share at this point and to continue using your own needles and equipment. This goes for sex workers, or those who engage in high risk sexual activity.

It is scary, I know and I have been through it and I am still at levels of undetectable.
There are those few people who can clear the virus completely.
But, one thing to know that treatment is not a cure. And I don't say this to deter anyone.
It will give you a longer healthier life and by taking care of yourself, you can remain at undetectable levels. That is the goal to be at a level where the virus cannot be detected in the blood.

Even after treatment, it is important to continue to see your doctor per his/her instructions or at least every 1 or 2 years to get your liver enzymes checked and a viral load.

If anyone needs any further info, let me know and I will do what I can to get it for ya!


There is some very important stuff said here that everyone not just junkies should know. I contracted my HepC from sharing needles with an exGF and she had been through Interferon and as far as she told me had been undectable. Actually, the way it was originally explained to me was that she never had it, and had been misdiagnosed but went through the Interferon while in a rehab anyway. A bullshit story; bottom line I was totally uneducated about it and in my inebriation trusted her blindly. We didn't share rigs on a regular basis and I was always pretty damn thorough (obsessive) about cleanliness. I don't think that there is anyway to assure you will not contract this shit if you are shooting dope off the street. Look at everything Candy said about how long it survives out of the body and bleached rigs not being safe etc. Now think about all the disgusting places your "raw" has been. That in and of itself is enough (I pray) to keep me from going back out there. I am going to see the new HepC doc I was reffered to on Monday, and then start treatment ASAP. I'm not going to do a biopsy; the doc says I'm young and should be good to go ahead and get started.

[noahzark]

The best to you Mrklean, I hope your treatment goes well. I have heard that drinking LOTS of water helps the sides. They also now have blood tests that can almost tell the same thing as a biopsy.

Noahzark

[edhorfin]

Edhorfin, are you a 1A? did the pods help much? I would think that it might mask or counter the depression and bad feelings?
I have accually heard of some docs giving low doses of Vic's with the Interferon treatment.

I'm a 3b, and the pods helped quite a bit, but daily use has its own perils, as I'm sure you know. I did my first round without AD's or anything else, and the depression peaked at about halfway through and then faded away. The most recent experience was the same, only I did use both ADs and pods, and it was much more tolerable. It was a real bummer going through 6 months and not clearing the virus. You may want to google "morphine and HCV replication". There's a study which shows morphine allows the virus to replicate more easily, which was news I didn't want to hear. It's the only reason I can see for my inability to clear the virus, since studies show relapsers of my geno who used pegintron combo have a very high rate of sustained response when retreating with pegasys combo. I did that and had the opposite results, the only other diff being the presence of pods...Good luck! BTW, if my liver wasn't grade 3 fibrosis I wouldn't have re-treated in the first place.

[Duckfeet]

Hello edhorfin...I gave u some points I mean for Candy, but u seem like a good egg anyway, and I'm glad ur around, and was trying to read some of yer posts...So if I'm reading right, u've treated twice?, right? Because so have I...only thing I do know is that they are constantly trying new stuff, since if sounds like the previous times neither one worked. I first did interferon by itself, back in 1995 I think it was, when that was all there was, either that, or ribivirin alone...didn't take, but second time, combo did take, and I'm sorry it didn't work out for you...but again, I hope u keep up with all the new studies...have u considered a clinical trial with different meds, and are u on the transplant list, or are u declining that option?

Anyway, just wanted to wish u best of luck, as shit is always changing in this area...

--duckfeet

I'm a 3b, and the pods helped quite a bit, but daily use has its own perils, as I'm sure you know. I did my first round without AD's or anything else, and the depression peaked at about halfway through and then faded away. The most recent experience was the same, only I did use both ADs and pods, and it was much more tolerable. It was a real bummer going through 6 months and not clearing the virus. You may want to google "morphine and HCV replication". There's a study which shows morphine allows the virus to replicate more easily, which was news I didn't want to hear. It's the only reason I can see for my inability to clear the virus, since studies show relapsers of my geno who used pegintron combo have a very high rate of sustained response when retreating with pegasys combo. I did that and had the opposite results, the only other diff being the presence of pods...Good luck! BTW, if my liver wasn't grade 3 fibrosis I wouldn't have re-treated in the first place.

[mrklean]

You may want to google "morphine and HCV replication". There's a study which shows morphine allows the virus to replicate more easily, which was news I didn't want to hear. It's the only reason I can see for my inability to clear the virus, since studies show relapsers of my geno who used pegintron combo have a very high rate of sustained response when retreating with pegasys combo. I did that and had the opposite results, the only other diff being the presence of pods...Good luck! BTW, if my liver wasn't grade 3 fibrosis I wouldn't have re-treated in the first place.


Thanks Ed, that is good info that is bad. Thankyou for making me aware of the possible negative influence of the morphine on the outcome of treatment. Gives me one more reason not to pick up. But, my gorilla plans to google and then immediately, and systematically, debunk said study and all other research which interferes with his using. :p

There is a few things I wrote down the other day which you may want to google; Amantadine, Iron reduction therapy, Zadaxin, MTH-68/B. < Just some keywords, I haven't taken the time to thoroughly research that stuff yet but am bringing that list to the doc on Mon. to ask about. Another thing my monkey found is studies claiming Xyrem(GHB) increases blood flow to the liver, and improves liver function. This seems like it would be awesome for all the side effects, and also help your liver. I highly doubt the doc will prescribe it though. Anyone else know anything about GHB and the liver? Keep your head up Ed I am glad to have you around.

[noahzark]

OMG this is scary stuff. I know a few people who are on the treatment and still use. I better try and let these folks know ASAP. I don't understand how this could be?

"Morphine Enhances Hepatitis C Virus Replicon Expression


Although injection drug users (IDUs) are the single largest risk factor for Hepatitis C Virus (HCV) transmission, there is little information available regarding whether substance abuse enhances HCV replication and promotes HCV disease progression. Therefore, we investigated whether morphine alters HCV mRNA expression in a HCV replicon-containing cell clone (Huh.8) that derived from human hepatoma cells (Huh7).
Methods: RT-PCR and Western blotting were used to determine the expression of mu-opioid receptor at mRNA and protein levels, respectively. HCV RNA copy numbers in the Huh.8 cells were quantified by real-time RT-PCR. pNF-kappaB-Luc, a plasmid containing NF-kappaB promoter linked with a luciferase gene, was transfected into Huh7 cells to study the effect of morphine on the NF-kappaB activity. CD8+ T lymphocytes were purified from PBMC isolated from whole blood of HCV-infected adult subjects using MACS CD8 Microbeads.
Results: Both Huh.8 and Huh7 cells express mu-opioid receptor. The addition of morphine to the Huh.8 cell cultures resulted in significant increase of HCV mRNA expression. Morphine diminished the anti-HCV effect of IFN-alpha in Huh.8 cells. This stimulatory effect of morphine on HCV mRNA expression was abolished by naltrexone (an opioid receptor antagonist) or beta-funaltrexamine (a specific mu-opioid receptor antagonist). Investigation of the mechanisms responsible for morphine action revealed that morphine activated NF-kappaB promoter and caffeic acid phenethyl ester (CAPE), a potent and specific inhibitor of activation of NF-kappaB, abolished morphine-activated HCV RNA expression in Huh.8 cells. In addition, culture supernatants from the activated CD8+ T-lymphocytes isolated from HCV-infected adult subjects, when added to Huh.8 cell cultures, significantly inhibited HCV RNA expression. This CD8+ T-cell-mediated anti-HCV effect was partially reversed by the addition of morphine to Huh.8 cell cultures.
Conclusions: Our data indicate that morphine may play an important role as a positive regulator of HCV replication in human liver cells in vivo. This enhancing effect of morphine on HCV RNA expression may compromise IFN-alpha therapy as well as CD8+ T-cell-mediated immunity against HCV infection.

[noahzark]

What is also scary is that it is:

"Hepatitis C and Morphine Withdrawal

Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania have demonstrated that morphine withdrawal complicates hepatitis C by suppressing IFN-alpha-mediated immunity and enhancing virus replication. Hepatitis C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_C) virus (HCV) is common among intravenous drug users, with 70 to 80% of abusers infected in the United States. This high association has piqued interest in determining the effects of drug abuse, specifically morphine and heroin, on progression of the disease. The discovery of such an association would impact treatment of both HCV infection and drug abuse.[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine#_note-26)

[mrklean]

I know it gets old hearing it but thankyou. I love you guys and girls and really really appreciate having other human beings to talk to who are so compassionate, understanding, and knowledgeable. You are saving lives.

There are alot of studies out there saying all kinds of different shit and it is hard to know which ones are accurate. With that in mind I probably wouldn't freak anyone out who is actively using and getting the HepC treatment. They might say fuck it and quit the interferon and not the dope. For recovering addicts it seems like good knowledge to have. I'm very grateful to know about these studies they will only give me more reason not to pick up while I am treated.

[Duckfeet]

I just wanted to say u are absolutely right on there being all kinds of studies, and that often, just because somebody posted it on the internet, and it's difficult for some of us to read, that then we think it is more meaningful or "true" than anything else we hear. I get a good doc, go on his advice, blow off most of what I read on internet, since I don't understand the methodology of the trials, or whether or not there are opposing views, etc...just too much info. I did dilaudids every day, and treatment still worked fine....that's not morphine, of course, but have known plenty methadonians also got better...and that too, is not morphine of course, but there was just way too much stuff written, on morphine, and I couldn't find anything worried me too much...

Best wishes to you....

I know it gets old hearing it but thankyou. I love you guys and girls and really really appreciate having other human beings to talk to who are so compassionate, understanding, and knowledgeable. You are saving lives.
There are alot of studies out there saying all kinds of different shit and it is hard to know which ones are accurate. With that in mind I probably wouldn't freak anyone out who is actively using and getting the HepC treatment. They might say fuck it and quit the interferon and not the dope. For recovering addicts it seems like good knowledge to have. I'm very grateful to know about these studies they will only give me more reason not to pick up while I am treated.

[edhorfin]

Hello edhorfin...I gave u some points I mean for Candy, but u seem like a good egg anyway, and I'm glad ur around, and was trying to read some of yer posts...So if I'm reading right, u've treated twice?, right? Because so have I...only thing I do know is that they are constantly trying new stuff, since if sounds like the previous times neither one worked. I first did interferon by itself, back in 1995 I think it was, when that was all there was, either that, or ribivirin alone...didn't take, but second time, combo did take, and I'm sorry it didn't work out for you...but again, I hope u keep up with all the new studies...have u considered a clinical trial with different meds, and are u on the transplant list, or are u declining that option?

Anyway, just wanted to wish u best of luck, as shit is always changing in this area...

--duckfeet
Thanks for the points, even if by accident. Candy, you should have all the points available- you're a godsend... DF, I watch all the new studies, I take NAC fairly religiously and milk thistle too. My liver disease is asymtomatic, mostly. No ascites, etc. Certainly no varices. I watched my brother in law die after 2 liver transplants, in the early 90's. He wasn't even an IVDU, got hcv from transfusion in the 70's during surgery. I'm not even close to needing a new liver yet. I lead a liver friendly life, haven't had alcohol since 1985 and am very careful about the amount of APAP I ingest. Also eat better food these days, less animal protein, more green shit etc...I plan on dying WITH hcv, not FROM it. Anyway, probably lots of us around here have it, everyone I hung with in high school certainly does, and I've watched firsthand the different responses to treatment among my old buddies. At some point, I believe they'll come up with something better than interferon combo. The market is way too big and the success rate of the current treatment protocol isn't near high enough. THere's a LOT of $$$ waiting the company that develops a very good treatment for this disease, with at least 4 million infected in the US alone. The insurance companies really hate the price tag of interferon and they spent it TWICE on me alone- so theres a big motivation to make a better drug right there.

At any rate, I feel great right now, and don't miss pegasys/ribavirin even a little. Thanks again and buenos suerte,
Ed

[noahzark]

Peace and love to all you folks.
Extra love to anyone suffering any way at this moment.

I agree with what you all are saying. If I had a choice of living to 100 but being totally straight and not enjoying life Vs living to 75 and partying and getting a buzz on, I would choose the second choice for sure. We all have to enjoy our life or what is the use?

What I posted was totally news to me and I was a little schocked to read it but one still has to take it with a huge grain of salt, no one really knows what really is good or bad for you.

Noahzark

[Duckfeet]

Great post, and I agree with you. I have people around me who seem to try so hard to live as long as possible, but who seem to be devoid of much, u know, joy of living at all. I probably at times have gone too far the other way, trading everything in the future in on today, and somewhere as I got older, and realized that just about everything is debatable, that it is important to attempt to enjoy life, to recognize what truly does destroy me, and what is just "not approved of." In spite of the many misfortunes I have been thru, I see my life in it's totality as a fortunate one, where usually I went my own way, and had many periods of great happiness...in spite--or because--of periodic opiate addiction.

And since I've seen so many things go from being "bad" to "good" to "bad" again, I've realized that I've got to take everything as being at best probable, and often debatable....

Peace and love to all you folks.
Extra love to anyone suffering any way at this moment.

I agree with what you all are saying. If I had a choice of living to 100 but being totally straight and not enjoying life Vs living to 75 and partying and getting a buzz on, I would choose the second choice for sure. We all have to enjoy our life or what is the use?

What I posted was totally news to me and I was a little schocked to read it but one still has to take it with a huge grain of salt, no one really knows what really is good or bad for you.

Noahzark

[noahzark]

Thank you Duckfeet. I need to self-medicate. I can not live and be happy totally straight. I do not like my normal consciousness so I alter it, my DOC is morphs. I would gladly trade straight years being old Vs passing on a few years earlier buzzed. I don’t understand some people who are totally happy straight. I know many and always wondered how they go on all day and be happy.

One worry I have with people doing Interferon treatment is the long term side effects. I have heard about people becoming blind because it does something to the small veins in the eyes? I have heard that people have aches and pains that never go away after the “TX”, the Interferon. There is no way I would not take it if my liver was on the way out but I wonder for border line people with little liver damage.

I am only saying for debate, I do not claim to be an expert her.

Cheers

Noahzark

[mrklean]

I went to the doc on monday and discussed a bunch of stuff. The prescription for my interferon etc. should be arriving in the next week or two. The number one thing we discussed which is on my mind is directly related to everything you guys have been discussing in this thread since I last checked it... there seems to be a study out there supporting every possible position in the world. How in the hell are we supposed to know what to beleive?

I told the doc I was proactively using "everyones favorite herb". My father was with me in the doctors office and I figured the doctor would atleast say something about the studies which I have seen concluding that recovering addicts using marijuana while undergoing interferon have a significantly higher rate of adhereing to the treatment regimen. I started the conversation about weed when the doctor was wrapping up the appointment and asked if we(me and pops) had any questions. I stated that my usage of the herb was a point of contention in our household and a factor in my decision to use it was its possible benefits while undergoing the interferon. I was convinced that the doc would atleast back me up on this a little instead he tells me (and dad) there are studies stating that weed has the same or similar effect on virus replication as the studies stating morphine helps the virus?!?!? Why does the doctor know about this study but nothing about the ones stating the benefits of herb? ...probably because he is paid to know about one and not the other.

So now I have to make a decision which I really don't want to make.

My family is not by any means going to be upset if I continue to puff they would just rather I didn't; they are about as cool as they come when it comes to this. They do however maintain the beleif that weed is financially crippling(it is for me) and not really something they advocate for daily usage. I on the other hand have a religious beleif that God wants me to smoke the shit. It makes me feel that good and sometimes getting stoned is all I can do to keep from getting back on hard shit.

Now, with the doctor saying it will have a negative impact on my ability to clear the virus, I will be less welcome to financial and other support from my family if I continue to blaze.

So, for the last few days I haven't been blazing and it sucks. I feel like I'm way too "with the program", it just isn't me. It really makes me wonder how much credence to give to what the doctors say. There are studies out there saying every and every other damn thing in the world, and they are all mostly paid for by people who are expecting the studies results to coincide with their business plans. Everything I know about weed from personal experience makes it seem like a wonder drug for a recovering addict like myself and then you put interferon in the mix and it seems like you'd be a fool not to smoke it atleast while going through the interferon.

I guess I'm just going to go for the 48 weeks with no trees. It makes no sense to me but, neither does shooting myself up with something weekly that is basicly poison. Except my goal is to get rid of this shit so that I can stop paying fucking nearly $500/month for health insurance. Once I get my virus levels down to undetectable levels I'm going to get some new insurance through work that isn't gonna cost me so damn much. Right now if I were to drop the insurance I have I don't think I could get on different cheaper insurance due to my diagnoses. If I could I'm sure there would be the stipulation that they would not cover future Hep treatment.

Do you guys think that the doctor may change his opinion on this if I start to have side effects? I get the feeling that he is just way to by the book to ever say that it may be helpful. I told him I was using Danshen root extract as an anxiolytic and for liver support and he said to stop taking that but, offered no alternative for anxiety. He also seemed to be way too excited about performing a biopsy which I can see no reason for. I am young, healthy, and have not had HepC for more than 6 or so years plus, I don't drink. I think maybe he just likes to cut into peoples livers for fun or some other sick reason (money?).

Sorry for the longwinded post but I had to get some of it out my head. I hope it is readable and not too terribly boring.

[Duckfeet]

Hey there Mrklean, just wanted u to know u had my sympathy. An excellent post, btw, on the problems we all have with "studies" and "research" and not knowing *who* to believe. I have that problem with methadone, with buprenorphene, with AA, with just about everything: too much information, and don't know what to believe, so often just "go with my gut..." and even that, as my past shows, isn't all that reliable ;-)

But I too was on Interferon, and the second time, when I did the pegasys (ribivirin/interferon combo) it got rid of it quickly. I was only on it five months, and I had genotype 1A (not the good one) and it still got rid of it. I've been nondetectable around five years...so I'm sure u'll do fine on it.

Most docs are conservative by nature, and don't keep up with all the studies, and you would be hard put to find one who would be supportive of pot, anyway, just to risky for them to come out and say that, when it's still illegal. They made it legal for med reasons, out here in Cali, but the feds keep jumping in and busting people who try to sell it. So fat chance, my drug of choice, heroin, will ever stand a chance in hell.

In any case, I'd just do what u needed to do, to be comfortable and reasonably happy on the treatment, which I'm in favor of. I've had two friends get transplants, and I don't wish that on anybody, so get the treatment, get rid of it, then u forget u ever had it, as I do.

I *did* get the biopsy--twice--but I'm a lot older, so it was a good idea. The biopsies aren't that big a deal, and they like doing them, because they think that is the only way they can *really* tell what damage has been done. But my liver was in good shape, and I drank like a fish, daily, so what's a young guy like you going to have...and especially, if u r going to get the treatment anyway, I could see blowing off the bio...but yer correct, docs love the damn thing...but again, it wasn't bad at all, and it's a good opportunity to hustle up a bunch of pain pills "Doc, my side is killing me!!!" Sorry, bad example ;-)

Anyway, best wishes to you!\\

df

I went to the doc on monday and discussed a bunch of stuff. The prescription for my interferon etc. should be arriving in the next week or two. The number one thing we discussed which is on my mind is directly related to everything you guys have been discussing in this thread since I last checked it... there seems to be a study out there supporting every possible position in the world. How in the hell are we supposed to know what to beleive?

<snip>

Sorry for the longwinded post but I had to get some of it out my head. I hope it is readable and not too terribly boring.

[mrklean]

What we need are studies on studies so that we can determine which studies are right and which studies are wrong. Of course then we would probably need studies on the studies of studies so we can determine which studies of the studies of studies of studies....nevermind I'm just gonna go with what the conservative doctor asshole says. :mad:

[noahzark]

What you are saying may not be far off. I believe some oif the studies are not even done on humans. I am not saying that we should ignore, I am saying grain of salt. The thing that gets me with Hep-C is how it effects one person totally different than the next.

I don't know if you are a Johnny Winter or SRV fan but Uncle John Turner the origional drummmer for Johnny Winter in the 60's and then a member of Stevie Ray Vaughn's pre "Double Trouble" band called Krackerjack in Austin passed away a few months ago from Hep-C related complications. So sad, he was 62.

Noahzark

What we need are studies on studies so that we can determine which studies are right and which studies are wrong. Of course then we would probably need studies on the studies of studies so we can determine which studies of the studies of studies of studies....nevermind I'm just gonna go with what the conservative doctor asshole says. :mad:

[mrklean]

I'm not sure I know Johnny Winter (albino dude?) but SRV gets me going. It is sad to hear that fella moved on. Like the song says "anyone who sings a song so sweet is passing by".

I dabble in the drums a bit and just saw a badass youtube clip of Buddy Rich tearing it up I can give you a link if you are at all impressed by percussion it will blow your mind.

Phil Lesh is one of my heros and he has an entire HepC support section on his Philzone.com? webpage which I visit sometimes. Poor Phil beat hepC but just went through prostate cancer and is apparently recovering well. I can't wait for him to start touring again he is an amazing person even if he had never played a single note.

[noahzark]

Mrklean how are you doing?
Did you start the TX yet?

I am thinking about you and hope you have no sides...

Noahzark

[edhorfin]

MrKlean,
None of my docs wanted to discuss side effects because of the psychosomatic effect. I was the one who always had to bring them up. When I said "depression" my hepatologist sent me to a shrink, who gave me SSRI's. The liver docs main side effect concern was from the ribavirin, not the peg-inf. Lots of folks get serious anemia and need to medicate for it, or sometimes reduce riba dosage or discontinue it altogether. I hope you go to the HCV forums, if you need to know which ones pm me.

Those forums plus all the studies available helped make me an educated patient, which my docs enjoyed. It also changed our relationship and I think it made them more aware of me that other patients. Remember, these guys treat SOOOO many people that it's very hard for them to keep track of exactly where you are in the course of treatment or symptom. Even though the studies often contradict each other, knowing about them is better than not. HCV is an effing complicated disease and the learning curve is still pretty much at the bottom. They are able to treat AIDS fairly effectively because of all those studies and the same thing will apply to HCV, as far as learning is concerned.

I've been off the TX for about 2 months and am pretty sure all the sides have gone away. Actually they went away pretty quickly for me. You just dont know shit until you go through it yourself. These days, the less I think about my liver, the better. I still read a lot, but any really big good news will probably come to me, I wont find it scouring medline...

Best of luck,
Mick

[mrklean]

Mrklean how are you doing?
Did you start the TX yet?

I am thinking about you and hope you have no sides...

Noahzark
MrKlean,
None of my docs wanted to discuss side effects because of the psychosomatic effect. I was the one who always had to bring them up. When I said "depression" my hepatologist sent me to a shrink, who gave me SSRI's. The liver docs main side effect concern was from the ribavirin, not the peg-inf. Lots of folks get serious anemia and need to medicate for it, or sometimes reduce riba dosage or discontinue it altogether. I hope you go to the HCV forums, if you need to know which ones pm me.

Those forums plus all the studies available helped make me an educated patient, which my docs enjoyed. It also changed our relationship and I think it made them more aware of me that other patients. Remember, these guys treat SOOOO many people that it's very hard for them to keep track of exactly where you are in the course of treatment or symptom. Even though the studies often contradict each other, knowing about them is better than not. HCV is an effing complicated disease and the learning curve is still pretty much at the bottom. They are able to treat AIDS fairly effectively because of all those studies and the same thing will apply to HCV, as far as learning is concerned.

I've been off the TX for about 2 months and am pretty sure all the sides have gone away. Actually they went away pretty quickly for me. You just dont know shit until you go through it yourself. These days, the less I think about my liver, the better. I still read a lot, but any really big good news will probably come to me, I wont find it scouring medline...

Best of luck,
Mick

LOL I'm very proud of myself I think I finally figured out how to quote multiple people in the same post, and it only took me like 200 some posts.... I'm sure I just jinxed myself and it won't come out right and I'll have to edit.
Thank you guys for all the support I love you.

So I haven't started Tx yet. The prescription was sent to the pharmacy and they called to verify everything. Ofcourse there was a problem; my peice of shit insurance company (which is supposed to be top of the line) has a $1500/yr. cap on prescription coverage. So, I was looking at having to pay like $23000 for the entire 48 wks of meds. I'm not even related to anyone that rich so this wasn't gonna fly. Thankgod my pops is like the fucking man and happened to have some free time. He made some phone calls for me because I am busy as hell 9-5 and don't really have the time or phone to play phone tag with the fucks at Roche and the insurance company. Anyways, Roche has some kind of patient assistance program which I've applied for. There shouldn't be any problem (god willing) for me to qualify due to the fact that I am about the brokest dude on the planet.

Hopefully, I will have my meds soon and can start Tx. I have been doing a hell of a job (if I don't say so myself) of not smoking the trees. I will definately keep updating you wonderful folks on my progress. I am kind of busy with work which helps keep my mind off the liver. I can't beleive all the bullshit which you have to go through with the insurance companies and doctors. My heart goes out to all those who are less equipped than myself to handle this shit. I am truly blessed to have alot of quality help in this endeavor.

It really racks me to think that somebody would have to pay that much money to get better, it really is unfair, and IMO all the fault of some disgusting greedy pigs who are all too aware of what they are doing.

[Duckfeet]

Just wanted to wish you well, mrklean...I took the double treatment (Interferon/ribivirin) a few years ago, a lot older than you, and drove a truck and was fine the whole time, so I'm sure you'll knock this bitch hepC right out of yer bod, like I did. Hopefully it kicks it out early. I was only on it *five* months and still cleared the virus, and it hasn't been seen in me old bod, since.

Anyway, good luck...attitude counts for a whole lot with this one, and I took the sort of fuck-you attitude which has served me so well in my life LOL...

Let us know how it goes!

df



<snip>

Hopefully, I will have my meds soon and can start Tx. I have been doing a hell of a job (if I don't say so myself) of not smoking the trees. I will definately keep updating you wonderful folks on my progress. I am kind of busy with work which helps keep my mind off the liver. I can't beleive all the bullshit which you have to go through with the insurance companies and doctors. My heart goes out to all those who are less equipped than myself to handle this shit. I am truly blessed to have alot of quality help in this endeavor.

It really racks me to think that somebody would have to pay that much money to get better, it really is unfair, and IMO all the fault of some disgusting greedy pigs who are all too aware of what they are doing.

[noahzark]

Damn right Duckfeet!

I also heard that if one drinks lots of water while on the meds that it is way easier. I read that it helps flush the interferon through ones system and also people feel better if very hydrated.

Good luck my bro, you are on our minds!

Noahzark

[mrklean]

I took the sort of fuck-you attitude which has served me so well in my life LOL...df


Excellent. I love it when my "bad" attitude serves me. In this halfway house I stayed at the "fuck you attitude" was akin to a relapse and was not tolerated in pretty much any situation. I wasn't there long. I understand how it can be dangerous to get in the "ah fuck it" mindset if you are in recovery but, as long as the fucking has a direct and appropriate target ie. "you"(the virus in this case) it seems to be very useful. :)

I am amazed at how long this thread has gone on and how awesome you guys are. Noah thanks for the water advice. Luckily I am already a huge water freak, all I drink is water and coffee (which I know is bad) occasionaly some OJ if I'm feeling scurvy. My house is on well water and right down the street from a place that bottles water and wins all kind of awards for high quality spring water. IMO the water out of the tap here is as good as it gets I drink tons of it. It is so damn crisp and delicious that nothing else really compares. I guess it could just be that I have been drinking it since I was a kid and we love what we know. I'm gonna go fill a glass right now....Yeh it is that good.

For about two or three years I was drinking city water in another state because thats mainy all I had access to. For the last two years I have been back on this great well water and I am pretty convinced about the flouride conspiracy being legit. I also try to avoid using fluoride toothpaste at all costs. I think I actually started a thread about this on here somewhere http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=8534&highlight=fluoride

Please read that thread and give it some good consideration.

[mrklean]

Started Tx a few days ago. All is well. I got a little ill the first day, felt freezing and stomache was messsed up and I was tired. But, unlike dope sickness it was easy to sleep through, and when I woke up I was pretty much fine. For all I know it wasn't even the interferon making me feel poorly. If it is this easy throughout I will have no issues. Big up to all who are keeping me well, especially everyone here.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, first time I did it, first night, felt like I had the blue, after that, didn't notice it. My problem was I talked doc into dilaudids...now *that* caused me lots of problems. But it was second or third month, and I just told him I had some aches and pains, out of habit...Damn good doc tho, compassionate. I guess I was his first junky.

Anyway, good luck to you, hopefully it'll be like me, no more problems, and clear the virus. You'll know pretty quickly if it's knocking the shit out...virus count will drop way down, right away...


Started Tx a few days ago. All is well. I got a little ill the first day, felt freezing and stomache was messsed up and I was tired. But, unlike dope sickness it was easy to sleep through, and when I woke up I was pretty much fine. For all I know it wasn't even the interferon making me feel poorly. If it is this easy throughout I will have no issues. Big up to all who are keeping me well, especially everyone here.

[poppy]

Brilliant thread!!! I haven't looked in on opiophile for a few weeks or so. In a previous thread I said I got diagnosed with hep c a few months back by oral swab. I'm due to have blood tests on 15th Oct to find out how active the virus is and for a liver function test. I know next to nothing about hep c but my drug worker says the hep nurse will explain all when she does the blood tests. I'm worried about them getting any blood at all due to my shitty veins (I should have had the blood test ages ago but have bottled out of past appoinments for them because of this lack of vein thing, I'm determined to go this time though) and also terrified about the idea of a liver biopsy. Actually I'm shitting myself fullstop. At least here on this site there are others with the same problems or who have had the same problems to talk to about things. Yet again opiophile comes t the rescue!!!!!!!!!

[noahzark]

Mrklean, I am thinking about you. I really wish you all the best and hope you have an easy time and knock the shit out of the dragon. You are a warrior now! They say you should drink lots of water and please keep us posted cause I really care personally. Maybe if you feel shitty a joint may help? If you can't eat I bet it would help? Please post how it goes.

Poppy don't be scared of the biopsy. It is a piece of cake. I was so scared and then laughed when it was over. I felt worse getting a shot in the gums at the dentist then a biopsy. If you are real scared they can give you a valium or I have heard that some gastro give a shot of Fent once in a while. Tell them you are scared. Please write and post how it went. I really care about you!

Duckfeet, did you have a biopsy? I bet you will agree.

Peace and love!

Noahzark

[candy]

Hi Poppy,

I know how scary this can be. You will need a blood test for a positive Hep C test and the nurses will go over all that you need to know about Hep C.
Has your partner shared needles with you? If so, he needs to be tested as well.
Bleaching does not kill the Hep C virus and many who have bleached to prevent HIV are not aware that bleach only works at killing off the HIV virus and any other little bugs present.

I know the liver biopsy sounds terrible, but it is really a breeze, There is some discomfort, pressure at the site, but they may numb the area first before doing the biopsy. It is done by ultrasound to get a pic of the liver and then they give a good jab to get the tissue. It is really not as bad as it may sound and you will be watched for a few hours after to make sure there is no bleeding from the liver and they will give you pain meds to help with any post biopsy pain.

Let me know if you need any more information.
Be well, C

[noahzark]

Also there is really neat mail in kits that one can use if you want to do it at home. IT comes with everything you need. It has a little prick your finger thingies and a card you place it on along with a prepaid envelope you mail in. In about 10 days you call a number and give the code that comes with the kit. They then give you the results and no one knows.

If someone wants info on this, let me know.

Peace and love to people suffering with Hep-C

Noahzark

[Duckfeet]

Yup: I've had three biopsies: two in one day, when first didn't work out right. Used'em both to scrounge up some pain meds....no big deal, and really lets u know shape of liver better than anything else. Totally glad I did the treatment too. Second time worked, it's gone gone gone....got friend, 2 friend, really, have had transplants. better to try treatment....


Mrklean, I am thinking about you. I really wish you all the best and hope you have an easy time and knock the shit out of the dragon. You are a warrior now! They say you should drink lots of water and please keep us posted cause I really care personally. Maybe if you feel shitty a joint may help? If you can't eat I bet it would help? Please post how it goes.

Poppy don't be scared of the biopsy. It is a piece of cake. I was so scared and then laughed when it was over. I felt worse getting a shot in the gums at the dentist then a biopsy. If you are real scared they can give you a valium or I have heard that some gastro give a shot of Fent once in a while. Tell them you are scared. Please write and post how it went. I really care about you!

Duckfeet, did you have a biopsy? I bet you will agree.

Peace and love!

Noahzark

[noahzark]

Mrklean, are you out there? I was just thinking about you and were wondering if things were going ok. Are you ojn treatmetn yet?

edhorfin, what about you? Are you feeling ok?

Poppy, are you aroung? Hows things?

Thinkin' bout ya!

Noahzark

[poppy]

Sorry its been so long since I last posted. Apologies to everyone!!!! Thanks for your concern Noahzark and everyone else who posted replies.

Right, heres an update on my hep c. After many false starts I finally plucked up the courage to actually have the blood test. As I expected my veins proved problematic, but the nurses were brilliant and didn't just stick needles in willy nilly where there was no hope of getting a vein like an anaethatist did a few years ago when I had an op to zap abnormal cervical cells, I felt and looked like a pin cushion after he'd finished with me. Anyway they had to use the veins in the tops of my feet to get the necessary blood, but they were brilliant, I didn't even have a bruise from it. Unfortunately they didn't get as much blood as they would have liked so were unable to do a liver function test.

It took 4 weeks for the results to come back and I now know that I have hep c type 1 which apparently is the hardest to treat. Only a 50/50 success rate and 48 weeks of treatment. I live in the UK and as I have finally managed to stop injecting heroin and stabilize on my methadone script (I've even started to reduce) I qualify treatment and will begin treatment in the new year. They still haven't explained all that much to me other than to say I will have to inject myself once a week in my stomach and take tablets daily as well.

Also I will be unable to drink during treatment which obviously makes sense. I do have a problem with alcohol but have managed to reduce down to two 5% cans of lager per day from eight - ten cans a day. So I just need to quit these last two cans. I figure that if I can quit heroin when I live with a partner who injects in front of me twice daily, then I can quit two measly cans of lager, but I am finding it hard. Anyway I have another hospital appointment on the 6th dec which will hopefully explain more, and I'm waiting for a liver scan appointment to come through. Apparently they no longer do liver biopsys in my area for hep c, just the scan but I assume that if my liver looks in really bad shape (and it probably will with the abuse I've given it) then they probably will do a biopsy.

Oh by the way Candy mentioned that my boyfriend should be tested, he definitely has hep c, its him I caught it off. He told me he didn't have it when I first met him. He'd just come out of prison after a longish stretch inside and said he'd been tested for everything and was fine. After I'd been with him about four or five years he finally told me the exact opposite was true, that he had hep c and had failed to respond to the oldstyle interferon treatment, but that his body had managed to clear hep b by itself. Had I known I would not have been as careless as I was with filters/water etc. Its easy to be wise after the event just goes to show that you can't trust anyone except yourself. As i'm now learning the hard way DON'T SHARE any kind of injecting equipment.

For what its worth even now he finds the stigma of having hep c so embarrassing he would still allow someone to wash out one of his dirty needles and pass on the disease rather than admit the truth which I just don't understand. I have known a fair few people in the 'junky' community with hep c (before I knew I had it) and I never looked at them any differently, I just wouldn't have shared a needle etc with them. I can understand 'straight people' looking down on someone with hep c, but not a fellow junky.

How is everyone else faring with their hep c treatments?

[mrklean]

Brilliant thread!!! !!!!!!!!!

Hi poppy welcome to the thread glad to have you here

.
Bleaching does not kill the Hep C virus and many who have bleached to prevent HIV are not aware that bleach only works at killing off the HIV virus and any other little bugs present.
I never knew this. I have learned alot recently and am way more leery of needles even when everything is sealed and brand new. Everytime you breach the skin you are taking risks with infections which can be horendous and not always treatable. There are so many different nasty things out there and you never know.
Also there is really neat mail in kits that one can use if you want to do it at home. IT comes with everything you need. It has a little prick your finger thingies and a card you place it on along with a prepaid envelope you mail in. In about 10 days you call a number and give the code that comes with the kit. They then give you the results and no one knows.
If someone wants info on this, let me know.

Peace and love to people suffering with Hep-C

Noahzark
That is a cool sounding program. Thankyou Noahz for being here ;)
Yup: I've had three biopsies: two in one day, when first didn't work out right. Used'em both to scrounge up some pain meds....no big deal, and really lets u know shape of liver better than anything else. Totally glad I did the treatment too. Second time worked, it's gone gone gone....got friend, 2 friend, really, have had transplants. better to try treatment....

Damn DF you probably know how to do a biopsy better than most of the doctors.


Ok, so I've been slamming the interferon and popping the ribav., and let me tell ya it is always extremely disappointing when you give yourself a shot and you don't get high :( . Besides that Tx isn't too bad.

I am kind of pissed that I am having issues keeping my meds in supply. The docs and pharm people are f'ing up and right now I'm out of interferon because of their mistakes. This is just so classic. I am glad to see that this running out doesn't only happen to prescribed opi's. Imagine how pissed I would be if I was riding this weekend out lacking fentanyl instead of interferon. Whoooo boy they would know about it. I'm really not that happy with my doc or staff, they seem to be very "fast food" style in getting people in and out of the office. I guess this is probably the case throughout the healthcare system(or lack there of).

Side effects-
Physically it seems like I wear down a little quicker and it takes me longer to recover, I just have a little less energy all around. The worst physical side effect is really some stomache stuff GROSS WARNING: I'll feel like I gots to crap and then when I go to do the deed there is nothing happening, then like 20 mins later I'll have terrible stomache cramps and barely make it to the WC before pissing out my ass. So that is fun. Another annoying side effect is I seem to be getting a lot more skin problems like alot of pimple sore type things on my face and more than normal sores on my tongue and stuff. The doc told me that my red blood count was kind of low, and if it stayed low we might have to make changes. There aren't any real physical things I couldn't sleep through.

Mentally I don't think I'm doing so great. I kirked out at work the other day; I can't say for sure whether it was just time for me to be done with that job, or whether I made bad decisions due to mental side effects of the meds. Either way I haven't been working which makes it more difficult to not sit around and sulk. I think I have another job lined up though. I am kind of worried about not performing well at a new job because of the meds but, I'm still gonna try. I've heard good things about K and depression, maybe they should put 50mgs in those interferon injections so atleast then there would be some incentive every week :). Anyone else have any opinion on this? I know it is opiates and interferon thread but I don't think the K and Interferon is broad enough to deserve a new thread.

The doc asked me on my last visit whether I had been drinking which I hadn't and I said "no" she just gave me that "yeah sure" look and I asked why she was asking. She said that my last liver function test showed a spike which could have been caused by drink. I wasn't drinking so I wonder why the spike? Is there something else I could have done to cause this spike?

Does anyone know how I can keep my red blood count up? I feel like I get winded more easily and the doc says this may be due to anemia.

In conclusion the lab was too slow in getting my first and last virus counts back to the doc and so I have no idea right now whether the Tx is working or not.

poppy, keep your head up. If you ever want to rap I'd love to tell ya stuff ya don't want to hear. XOXOXO

[poppy]

Mrclean and DF thanks for being there or should I say here I have huge relationship probs at the moment (4 those who know me - things are worse than they've ever been before)as well as the hep c, it means so much to know I have someone to talk to!!! THANK YOU

[nick]

Mrclean and DF thanks for being there or should I say here I have huge relationship probs at the moment (4 those who know me - things are worse than they've ever been before)as well as the hep c, it means so much to know I have someone to talk to!!! THANK YOU

Sorry to hear that you're positive,but VERY glad that you got tested and are starting treatment.

Sis,I know MANY addicts who are hep positive,in fact sometimes,I think I'm the only addict in the UK without hep.However,I know many addicts that have "cleared" hep.Hell,my partner has.

It's not a pleasant course of treatment,but it's a lot better than the alternative.

You might want to checkout the hepatitis handbook.It will answer most of your questions.

and good to see you around,.

[poppy]

thanks nick, just feeling sorry 4 myself i guess

[nick]

thanks nick, just feeling sorry 4 myself i guess

I think that makes you human and I hope your relationship problems sort themselves out.

I'm having much the same kinda problem and it's giving my indegestion...........and making me drink an awful lot.

[mrklean]

Sis,I know MANY addicts who are hep positive,in fact sometimes,I think I'm the only addict in the UK without hep.

it truly is impressive to be a needle junky without hep. Now that I know about bleach not killing it and it being contracted through something as seemingly harmless as sharing a toot I almost can't imagine how you can not catch it after you've been shooting for awhile.

[poppy]

Hi mrklean, I just wondered how the treatment was going? I'm due to start mine in the new year.

[edhorfin]

Mrklean, are you out there? I was just thinking about you and were wondering if things were going ok. Are you ojn treatmetn yet?

edhorfin, what about you? Are you feeling ok?

Poppy, are you aroung? Hows things?

Thinkin' bout ya!

Noahzark

I'm fine...Missed the updates to this thread, though. Thanks for asking and caring. Is mrklean clearing the virus? Perhaps the answer is in posts I havent read yet...

[Duckfeet]

Hope you're doing better yourself, Poppy...a while back on here u seemed kind of blue ... maybe it's passed, I trust it has...and treatment'll be fine, to me no sweat, and it worked for me, and I have genotype 1a, as most people in U.S. do...best wishes...


Hi mrklean, I just wondered how the treatment was going? I'm due to start mine in the new year.

[mrklean]

Hey I went to the doc the other day and they finally got lab work back that showed my viral load and it is ZERO! Yeah I am pretty excited that the interferon seems to be working. The side effects are kind of shitty sometimes, kinda like WD. I am sticking with it and beating this shit out of my body though. On some other boards they call those of us who mess with the interferon Dragon Warriors, it makes injecting drugs that make you sick instead of high seem a little cooler. LOL All my dragon slayers (....not chasers, although my best goes out to you guys too) STAY STRONG.

I am not on here much recently but, knowing that others are here and that this thread is staying active is a priceless gift you guys give me just by checking in. I have been doing accupuncture to cope with some side effects and just for all around wellness and I feel like it may be helping. I feel like it helps enough that I would recommend it to friends. I might start a thread about accupuncture if we don't have any. They got these seeds they've been putting on my ears that I swear feel really nice.

Love you guys I will try to be back on here soon.

[mikells43]

good to see ur doing god with the interferon, i have a friend in that process right now. he is getting scripts out the ass, hes a recovering addict who is clean, hes so scared to take a pill for pain, i said as long as u take them as perscribed ur allright. everytime i see him he looks like hes been hit by a train. keep goign. i kno anouther guy who had to go thru that 2 times.

[Duckfeet]

*Good!* that is good: if viral load down to zero this quick, and it stays there, u are looking really good to get rid of the shit...and I have a friend who's had a transplant, and this is much easier, believe me...and the side effects usually get better, and I felt kind of tuff, too, shooting up that achy crap...but I'll tell you: I had five years sober, doing really good, and after my biopsy, doc offered me some pain meds, and actually gave me some dilaudids, and I went nuts, what with the syringes and stuff, and went steadily down hill from there, eventually going back to heroin, and never been quite the same since...so be careful of getting crazy, but I will tell you that it is damn sure worth hanging in with the interferon, and does sound good for you, to be totally rid of this bastard forever....I've also heard really good things about acupuncture along w/it, so sounds like u r on right track, and best wishes...

df



Hey I went to the doc the other day and they finally got lab work back that showed my viral load and it is ZERO! Yeah I am pretty excited that the interferon seems to be working. The side effects are kind of shitty sometimes, kinda like WD. I am sticking with it and beating this shit out of my body though. On some other boards they call those of us who mess with the interferon Dragon Warriors, it makes injecting drugs that make you sick instead of high seem a little cooler. LOL All my dragon slayers (....not chasers, although my best goes out to you guys too) STAY STRONG.
I am not on here much recently but, knowing that others are here and that this thread is staying active is a priceless gift you guys give me just by checking in. I have been doing accupuncture to cope with some side effects and just for all around wellness and I feel like it may be helping. I feel like it helps enough that I would recommend it to friends. I might start a thread about accupuncture if we don't have any. They got these seeds they've been putting on my ears that I swear feel really nice.
Love you guys I will try to be back on here soon.

[noahzark]

Wow this is nice news for me to hear on the eve of NYE. It makes me feel good to hear that people can tolerate the Interferon. I guess it is different for eveybody? Remember drinks lots of water. Maybe you might need anti D's if you feel down? I hear lots of people feel low. I think you are gonna clear it.

Noahzark

[mrklean]

At this point I know that I have cleared the virus I just have to finish out the course of interferon/riba. Yes, it is a great feeling, and all of you have helped me to make it to this point.

Like mikells friend I am scared to death of painpills right now. Thanks Duckfeet for constantly reiterating where those doctors dillies lead you; this is invaluable experience you share, and is certainly saving me a world of suffering. Not calling the doc and asking for something when you are feeling sick for weeks at a time isn't easy when you feel off and know that bliss is just a shot away. I have quite awhile left on this Tx and it sure would be great to ride it out high as a kite on doctor ordered dope. But, trying to clean up again after my habit has become no longer sustainable just isn't worth it to me today.

Right now the mental side effects seem to be atleast as bad as the physical ones. The worst is wondering whether you are overeacting to physical side effects which are not so bad because you are in such a bad way mentally. Everyone tells me to get on an anti depressant but, I so far have refused, for many reasons. But, probably mostly because if I am going to take drugs I want to get high, not just feel better. As a junky feeling normal doesn't make much sense to me when with less initial effort I could feel fantabulous.

I am going to get better I just need to tolerate this medicine for awhile longer. For anyone contemplating starting on interferon I would probably give herbal alternatives a chance for atleast a year before resorting to inter/riba etc. I can't imagine interferon being totally side effect free for too many people. Unless your liver is in dire straights I would say to try and get healthy strong, clean, etc. see what your body can do on it's own when you provide it with what it needs. Even if you still need interferon then atleast you have gotten yourself in a good state to cope with the evil shit. I gave my body some time to try and clear the virus on its own and am just now learning that there is more I could have done to aid it. In retrospect I may have tried a few other things before the interferon but, am grateful it is working and will contiinue with it. Ok I'm finally sick of typing sorry.