acetic anahydride...

[gooserooster]

It's a shame that Acetic Anahydride isn't easy to find. Since we'd never want to break the rules of forum, we'd never ask how to find it. I had a friend, He had really great O, grew it himself, but now he's totally immune to it, and he needs to treat it with the above.....he tried to get vingegar to distill into something stronger, but that was a disaster, wouldn't work.

anyone?

[robojunkie]

Anyone know where a guy I heard about could find any acetic anahydride? He had really great O, grew it himself, but now he's totally immune to it, and he needs to treat it with the above.....he tried to get vingegar to distill into something stronger, but that was a disaster, wouldn't work.

anyone?

First of all, NO SOLICITING refers generally to anything drug related, including chems for which you have expressed (or this guy you heard about...) the desire to use for producing diacetylmorphine. Consider this your first and last warning on requesting this type of stuff.

Now, as for the general question, and please don't take this the wrong way: First of all, read the sticky thread in chem section called H without acetic anhydride (or something like that). Once you have read that pick up a good undergrad organic text, I only say that because your question betrays a lack of education on the basics of organic chem. You will never make heroin from acetic acid/vinegar/vinegar distillate/glacial acetic acid/etc. If you get and read the organic text the reason why this fails will become fairly obvious, as will the reason you need an anhydride or acid chloride. Read about pKa's and leaving groups, as well as just the basic reactivity trends for different acid derivatives. If you read this stuff you will understand why, and it is my opinion (others may have other opinions, but this is mine) that you should absolutely understand what is going on in a reaction (ie mechanism) and why you are using the specific chems being used and why you are performing each step in the process, regardless of whether you are making apirin, heroin, prozac, table salt or water.

And, just for the sake of discussion, going through all the hassle of learning this stuff and the risk one would entail acquiring such a ubiquitously known "drug" chemical as Ac2O just to dump crude opium into it would be a vast waste of time. H is only 2.5 to 3 times stronger than M IV, so any yield below 35% or so would be like trading 300 mgs M for 100 mgs H, ie same shit, strength wise. And not to be bursting bubbles, but the simple di-acylation of morphine with an acid anhydride is far easier than isolating/extracting relatively pure morphine from all the other junk in opium. Stuff like water, peptides, oils, cellulosic crap and so on will just muck up the reaction. Even shitty black tar is better prepared using the crude alkaloid extract, not just the raw p-som latex. Remember always this phrase, as it applies profoundly to synthesis, as it does to many other things in life: Garbage In, Garbage Out...

Oh, and I'm moving this to chem forums.

[gooserooster]

Hey there, I think that isolating the morphine base is pretty basic stuff... that's the one thing that....himm the guy I know...you guys say swim? that's the one thing he can do! That's a piece of cake. Slaked lime. Isolating the morphine base is the hurdle he can handle, it's getting the dicetylization he don't know about.

[gooserooster]

and, separating Morphine from OPium is also something that can be done with a minimum of lose, as apposed to what you said...something like he'd only get 1 part for every three part morphine? I disagree....if one gets 300 mgs of morphine from crude opium, as you call it, and someone where to acetilyze the same, he'd end up with 300 mgs of dicetyle morphine, which would be 2.5 to 3 times as strong...so it's not the same shit, is it.

[gooserooster]

Robo...where's that sticky? In the Chem section...but what sub section. I can't find it.

[robojunkie]

The sticky is in morphine I believe.

My point about the cost/benefit analysis (as in yields) is this: no one can achieve "100% extraction/isolation and then 100% diacetylation". There is always loss in any step. Assuming this is raw/crude opium (as in from a lanced pod, not "putty" from tea), then its reasonable assuming one has the appropriate materials (more than just calcium hydroxide, even the most basic large scale morphine base isolation requires the ammonium chloride as well, not that that is hard to come by) and more importantly an understanding of why these are used as opposed to other acids and bases, one could at best hope for recovery of maybe 80% or so of the morphine present, and that's assuming experience, knowing what to look for and look out for. Better recovery percentages can be obtained with more extensive extractions/isolations, but that's not relevant. The idea is that reactions go best when only what is needed to react, catalyze and dissolve the reagents are present. The more irrelevant materials present ("impurities") the lower the yield of diacetylmorphine would fromt the more and more crude morphine present.

So, yes if one could acylate morphine with a 100% yield then it is a good return, without question. But if the yield is only 35% one has just created one third of something three times as strong. In other words, no net gain. Generally speaking the large scale heroin producing labs seem to get around 60% yield on average, sometimes a little more or less, using the simplest acetylation process, ie no catalysts, etc. At least this is what I've read a few times over the years. And this is something that is essentially their job and something with which they have experience with and, also quite important, is on a scale different by several orders of magnitude.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not saying one can only get a third of the morphine present out of opium. And it is "crude" opium, unless someone has refined it in some way. From the pod to the pipe, crude. With skill and the simple procedure I believe its reasonable to expect to get anywhere from 70 to 90% of the morphine present in the opium, depending on dilution, pH, times, etc. What I was trying to make a point of was that just dumping raw opium or even dried opium into acetic anhydride and cooking away hoping for the best isn't likely to return anything I'd be likely to bang. If as you said this is easy as "your friend" believes it to be (the extraction/isolation) and he knows what he's doing then he should have no problem finding all kinds of info on this. There are literally hundreds of discriptions of this process all over the web. Rhodium's archives and similar sites have collections of all kinds of papers on this topic, some far more informative than others. Have fun, lots of good reading...

[vicious86]

He must have a lot of opium to want to go through this crap instead of ingesting it.

[Somanax]

He must have a lot of opium to want to go through this crap instead of ingesting it.


Unless you have lot's and a hobby fetish

It is most assuredly easier to buy DOPE

Not to mention you would sooner find A

Barrel of P2P than an ounce of A.A.

[pharmboy]

Yup and If you did find some it is probably
being watched. .. the D.E.A. dont make those
lists for fun.:cool:

[OxyContinuously]

save urself time and heartache, and enjoy the opium as tea or grounds, or if u have morphine, use it as such...these excursions into organic chemistry "at home" will inevitably fail, plus, you'll probably end up destroying your stash...

and Robo's right; this has been beaten to death literally dozens of times: acetic acid is NOT acetic anhydride. Acetic acid will not take the place of anhydride, and acetic acid can't be "turned into" acetic anhydride...

Now, something that IS fully attainable and safe to do with the opium poppy pod is to harvest the latex. One would go about it like this...When the "crown" on the pod is pointing up to the sky, the pod is swollen, and it has been at least 7 days, but not more than 12 or 14 days since the petals fell off, this is when u make the incisions. Be careful, try to make them no more than a millimeter in depth. Why? because too deep and the opium latex will be lost in the seed pod, and to shallow, it will not bleed out properly. Keep in mind, an appreciable dose comes from more than one pod, depending on variety, etc. But once you incise the pod and the latex bleeds out, wait maybe 12 hrs or so till it dries out, then simply take a spoon or similar tool and scrape this latex off of the pod. At this time you can re-incise the pod to make sure everything came out. So collect the raw opium, and what you do is take an appreciable volume of water (not too much, maybe 200mL something like that) and put the raw latex into the water and SIMMER for about 15, 20 minutes. If you boil, you will destroy the alkaloids. Ok, after 15 minutes or so, collect the opium you have simmered, let the water evaporate off (a heatlamp is ok, but don't leave it there too long) and what you have is called "cooked opium" The reason you cook it is to separate all the plant material, and plant bullshit from the opium itself. Cooked opium is suitable for eating, or smoking, or even fixing, if you use citric acid or something to make it a citrate or something soluble in the human body.

And that's it.

later
peace
Oxy

[nick]

You want some cool advice? listen to Oxy and Robo,they KNOW what they're talking about.

If making H was easy..............

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, we'd a had a still up a long time ago, right Nick? Hell, I can't even boil down paregoric without fucking it up.



<snip>

If making H was easy..............